on the surface of the ridiculously one sided story, you're almost ordered to agree with the "victim" but, I gotta tell ya... and, I'm no fan of bully oinkers but, if I were deputy dove, that fucksnot half a fag cowpoke woulda been bleeding in the back seat of the police car after the second request for ID. No fuckin' way he's able to hear the ELEVENTH.

First, this cop did everything wrong and didn't even begin to follow proceedure. Then had his back-up cuff and restrain the supposed victim.

And second citizens are not required to show ID and cops are not allowed to demand it except when there is probable cause. Which this guy didn't have because he never talked to the victim.
If the cops win this one we'll all be in trouble because it'll be one more paragraph ripped out of the constitution

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Exactly true! The sheep and lemmings don't realize that the safety lies in the liberty. Or that the greatest threat to liberty is the government. Any government.

"The articulable facts that would lead a reasonable person to believe that a crime has been, is being, or will be committed."

What does probable cause mean in your state?

It's about the same. And that's exactly the point. A report of an argument does not constitute probable cause. At very best it's possible cause. In order to have probable cause the cop would have had to talk to the victim.

He didn't have any facts all he had was a vague report from a passing motorist.

He was a fuking cop and cops are all about retaining power during interactions with common (lesser) citizens, all in the name of upholding "law." When this dude dared to question the cop and asked him to explain himself, not only did the cop refuse to do so, he arrested him. Way to go for pigs.

He's a fuking cop. What else is new?

Someday, I too hope to be a fuking cop. Until then, I shall submit shitty links to Linkswarm.

Welcome to Ashcroft's America. My money's on the pigs.

Actually, the cop had probable cause for asking for the guys ID. Some1 reported some sort of assault including a guy that looked like this hick cowboy. That is probable cause enough to ask for an ID.
The cop fuked up in that he didn't tell the guy what he was being arrested for; which can lead to a dismissal of charges.
If the guy would have called his lawyer right there and gone with the cop, he could have been out of the police station in under an hour.

The real point is that the probable cause question and the citizens rights in search and seizure are what the supreme court is going to rule on.
If they rule for the cop another small piece of our personal freedom goes down the shitter.

The real point is that cops are pushy assholes that think they have a right to tell anyone to do whatever they want and we have to listen like they are god. The other real point here is that Jethro could have been alot more cooperative when first approached since the cop had done nothing but try to figure out what was up. Both of these assheads are wrong so they get nothing. The girl however should be able to kick them all in the nuts once.

Probable cause was the report of Domestic Violence, be it real, imagined or nonexistent. Law Enforcement take all calls of DV very seriously as it can turn violently bloody, with the officer in the middle, more often than not.
Deputy Dove had the right to ask for the Driver's License in order to verify thatMr Hiibl did have one as he was standing on the driver's side of the vehicle and needed to ascertain who had driven it. It was parked at an angle off of the road and, were a close examination done of the dirt behind the truck, might have produced evidence of an abrupt stop at the side of the road.
The daughter was cuffed as she began moving in a violent manner towards Deputy Dove, while screaming unintelligibly most of the while, except for "Nooo!!"
But as the only evidence available from the incident is a tape which cannot be deciphered clearly most of the time, nobody can say with certainty what exactly happened.

frans is a law enforcement professional and he would appretiate an elimination of all negative propaganda/opinions and urban legendish thoughts on his given profession..thank u all in advance.

here is another story that heppened to myself.
http://www.geocities.com/wolfecal/

As little as possible should ever be left up to the discretion of a police officer, especially any simple minded one who fears a situation could potentially grow beyond his control.

That is why the insistance on ID is important. It isn't to figure out who a person is as much as it is the first in a logical progression of inquiries to find out if the person is rational and willing to cooperate with the cop, which this redneck quite obviously was not.

Guys like this are of the same breed who stockpile gun collections in their house in fear and defense of that day when they will have to defend their civil liberties as a militia of "free-willed americans" against a supposed attack from their own "oppresive" government. (Waco)

Meanwhile, back in reality, the only things threatening their civil liberties and freedom is their inability to cooperate with the rest of society, who has hired these police officers to do their jobs and find out what the fuck he is hiding if he is being so stubborn.

The cops here didn't really use the best technique, but if anything they did things a bit TOO much "by the book" which is how they were trained to do them. That stupid chick didnt need to start harrassing the cop who went to the truck, and if everyone had just been cool and unemotional, I am willing to bet the cops would have left them the fuck alone. But no... blame it all on the "BIG, BIG MEN".

I interpret for my pal TS, who I find myself vehemently disagreeing with.

Trousersnake: this guy is dumb. When the big predator comes, you keep your head down and squeak only when barked at. Besides, they're probably not even predators. They're our friends. Their big sharp carnivore teeth are simply policy. Those guys out there digging deeper burrows so the big animals can't get us? They're crazy.

so you don't have to provide ID, but it's probably a good idea. similar to how you don't have to take it in the ass in prision, but it's probably a good idea?

thanks for the clarification, TS!

California State Law states that you MUST show ID on demand, the Nazi bastards. It IS the law here.