Yes, because 1 in 14 jobs in the US aren't directly or independently dependent on the domestic auto industry, and evaporating them wouldn't do anything at all to the already tanking economy.

C'mon. It's also the last thing America actually manufactures that isn't meant to be dropped on Third-World children. The evisceration of the US's manufacturing base is one of the prime causes of the current economic disaster -- believe me, you don't want to break the last one.

its dr. who all over again sahlgood

Obama will re-purpose and retool the industrial might of Michigan to put a wind mill in every yard, a solar panel on every roof, and finally slay the dragon of oil addiction and dependence on middle east energy, while creating millions of jobs and farting rainbows.

^It actually seems plausible that that level of investment could pay off huge in the long-term. And the rainbow farts (oxygen) may not translate to profits-but could set a standard for a new industrial/energy sector which has serious the real possibility of being competitive-though European markets are way ahead of us on that one. Re-tooling Detroit to be cost-effective and green could have lasting implications for the US economy. And unless we are going to re-tool our industrial base to create only guns and tanks, this would be a good thing.

Congressional Republicans are the real problem with blocking the bill. But we'll see how it turns out after the transition.

Actually, I meant that Obama himself would personally be farting rainbows, while performing these feats, but having a smaller carbon footprint could be, like, bonus points or something.

Here's the deal: if GM, Ford and Dodge/Chrysler are allowed to fold up and blow away, it opens a huge market for automobile companies that haven't run themselves into the ground to expand into. The demand for automobiles isn't going away with them.

If Obama want's to get involved, he can start by not allowing any auto companies that are selling cars in the US to default to Chinese labor for all of the third party components because that's why the jobs surrounding the auto industry have dried up.

Letting the big three die will put more Chinese out of work than it will Americans.

WAIT, HOW AM I GOING TO PROP UP MY HOUSE OF CARDS NOW!?!

teh_blintz0r: the last thing America actually manufactures that isn't meant to be dropped on Third-World children.

This is glib and perhaps inaccurate but I love it no less for all that.

listen to Professor LK. I tried debating the (un)usefulness of unions with a friend not knowing that he was the pres. of the local air duct workers union... some people buy hand and fist into that union bullshit. They served a purpose, but now only hinder what they were created to protect.

I never hear anything about how unions work that doesn't make me conclude: fuck unions hardcore.

LK, since I've been in this industry for my entire working career (until the last three years) I've seen this and agree with your union comments.

I'm also here to say that the unions are not the only problem. The big three have mismanaged themselves into the dirt from top to bottom.

IMO breaking the unions and getting rid of them is a good start, but it isn't going to force the big 3 to stop buying shit from India and China for bottom $ and at a level of quality that matches what they pay. It also won't create any jobs. As long as it remains profitable (and legal) to pack up shop and move production to China or India, companies are going to keep doing it. And they'll keep getting tax breaks, just like they always have... It also may come as a surprise to you that most of the jobs that go to China and India from my area were small mom and pop shops that just couldn't compete with the import parts prices and the people who lost their jobs, by and large, were not union laborers. Most tier 2 and 3 suppliers aren't (weren't) union shops.

IMO breaking the unions and getting rid of them is a good start, but it isn't going to force the big 3 to stop buying shit from India and China for bottom $ and at a level of quality that matches what they pay. It also won't create any jobs. As long as it remains profitable (and legal) to pack up shop and move production to China or India, companies are going to keep doing it. And they'll keep getting tax breaks, just like they always have... It also may come as a surprise to you that most of the jobs that go to China and India from my area were small mom and pop shops that just couldn't compete with the import parts prices and the people who lost their jobs, by and large, were not union laborers. Most tier 2 and 3 suppliers aren't (weren't) union shops.

...deserved repeating

wotak said

Nigger, don't even start to school me on the machinations of the fucking auto industry. I spent 3 hrs on a con call with GM today after we shut down Hamtramck for 6 hrs because of an incorrect sticker on a skid. An overpaid mouthbreather thinking about deer huntin tried to put 18 inch tires on a skid of 22 inch rims. This entitled retard didn't have the problem skills to compare two items like the wheels he sees every day and 30 wheels that were larger and had 3 more spokes. Dumbo couldn't hit the BIG RED BUTAN on his multimillion dollar system that will eventually replace him once we can legally let this machine hit the BIG RED BUTAN itself when it sees a problem. This is the goddam ROOT of the problem, because shit like this happens EVERY DAY.

I'll agree that the Big 3 also has other problems, begging the non-autopac countries to assfuck our market and run squealing back to their own banks with our cash is just stupid.

Chinese/Vindaloo parts are both cheaper and in a lot of cases better quality. When their stuff is out of spec they can just toss em and make more, fill their WIP streams weeks ahead of schedule and replenish faster.

small mom and pop shops go poop :(

So tell me again how the Big 3 not making cars in North America will result in other OEMs buying less foreign parts.

........thats right you can't, but we should try to keep the rest of the assembly jobs here, and re-tool and re-learn to make those parts again with less waste.

and the chinks say, ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US

:shoots self in head:

Maybe we can all get jobs as coolies.

kahuna said: LOLZ...An overpaid mouthbreather thinking about deer huntin...LOLZ

Burn Down Motown.

kahuna: 'So tell me again how the Big 3 not making cars in North America will result in other OEMs buying less foreign parts.'

The way things are today, it won't.

Wut I said: 'If Obama want's to get involved, he can start by not allowing any auto companies that are selling cars in the US to default to Chinese labor for all of the third party components because that's why the jobs surrounding the auto industry have dried up.'

In your haste to disagree with me you actually agreed with me:

kahuna: 'thats right you can't, but we should try to keep the rest of the assembly jobs here, and re-tool and re-learn to make those parts again with less waste.'

Were on the same page here as well, but 'the rest of the jobs' ain't enough. There is almost no work left in Michigan for parts manufacturing. This is why I'm in a different industry today. I spent the better part of 15 years as a process and CI engineer. It didn't matter how efficient we made our production facilities, our barely-above-minimum-wage employees still lost their jobs to Chinese employees who get paid about 75% less.

People want to keep talking about change and this is a good place to start. If outsourcing middle-class North American jobs to Asia isn't stopped, there will be no middle class here... so who's gonna buy the shiny new cars?

If the Big 3 are bailed out, they won't change. That's why I say let them fucking die. It won't take long for Toyota and Honda to move in to fill up the vacuum they leave. That means manufacturing jobs in Auto plants that aren't run by the same retards that ran the Big 3 into the ground to begin with.

Then, if Obama wants to change something, he can limit the ability of these companies to outsource and put our homegrown labor back to work. He can also get to work plugging the tax loopholes that allow companies that outsource for 3rd party parts to gobble up the same tax breaks that companies that don't outsource are allowed.

As bleak as things might look to you up there in Canada regarding this industry, with all respect, you have no idea. Come on down here and we'll take a drive through Rouge and Flint and every other folded up Michigan town where all the jobs have disappeared. Our employment situation has been a steady slide for 20 years and today the industry is dead. Not broken, not failing or in trouble, it's fucking gone. Eventually, it will be gone in your neck of the woods as well and you'll owe that to the same Big 3 that employs idiot mouthbreathers at a premium and gladly allows them to continue fucking up your day by hitting the wrong butan.

Here's a good example of a company that does not deserve a bailout:

This is an entire decade of complete fail. It's as if they don't even want to be in business. You might as well bail out lake Superior with a fucking spoon. This company deserves to die and the other two are right behind them.

Dude.......dude um, fuck.