'Congress will approve an immigration bill that will grant citizenship rights to most of the 12 million to 20 million illegal aliens in the U.S. after Democrats take control next month, predict both sides on Capitol Hill.

While Republicans have been largely splintered on the issue of immigration reform, Democrats have been fairly unified behind the principle that the illegals currently in the country should get citizenship rights without having to first leave the country.'

Democrat Senator Patrick J. Leahy:
'Years of dawdling have worsened our border security and made it harder to fix this broken system. We should not let partisan politics and intolerance continue to delay and derail effective reform.'

Democrat Senator Patrick J. Leahy:
'This past May, the Senate Judiciary Committee reported and then the Senate passed bipartisan versions of comprehensive immigration reform to bring people out of the shadows while strengthening our borders. I look forward to building on that work next year and making progress on a bipartisan effort that improves security, supports our economy and respects the dignity of all people'

'House Republicans and many outside Congress derided that bill as 'amnesty' for allowing illegals to remain in the U.S. and eventually become citizens. Democrats say it's not amnesty because aliens must pay a fine and wait years before becoming citizens.'

Republican Representative Jack Kingston:
'The Senate bill is pure amnesty. Dress it up any way you want, it's still amnesty. It lets people pay their way out of sneaking into the country illegally.'

dinoza:
'I don't understand...'

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil:
'The real criminals are the free market forces that seek out the cheapest labor possible and attract the migrant workers.'

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil:
'Increase the min. Wage and they will have to hire 'mericans or go out of business because they can't ethically/legally opperate.

Loko, how 'bout them apples?'

Mofo:
'Raising the minimum wage a couple bucks doesn't automatically mean that the price of everything is going to go up two bucks, nor mean that a lot of people will lose jobs.'

Mofo:
'Companies like Wal-Mart make more than enough money to pay decent wages, but they just don't.'

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil:
'All I am saying is that these 'evil bad people' are here not to rape our horses and ride off on our women--they are here to work at the shit jobs we don't want to do and we don't pay well enough for us to do--but for some reason or another can't offshore them.'

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil:
'Once you start talking about Labor conditions and market forces you really can't talk bigotry or isolationism for very long. Once you start talking about Labor conditions and market forces you really can't talk bigotry or isolationism for very long. The truth is that we ask for illegal black-market labor and we all pay for it by fewer taxes and 'subsidized' goods that are cheaper to produce.'

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil:
'Although very few people care to remember, we, the current plurality in America were all not born here. We sneaked into this country, we poisoned, cheated, lied and stole the land repeatedly from the 'savages' who were either too friendly or dumb enough to trust us.'

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil:
'There is no position of moral authority that an AMERICAN can speak from if they happen to recall the murderous and hypocritical acts of agression and naked greed performed by their forebears in pursuit of dominion. To protect this land with lofty ideals and memories is a typical thing for an ignorant nation.'

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil:
'Point is: Politics does not equal human history and when you talk like politics provides moral authority you are severely deluded.'

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil:
'Where is the argument? Labor flows to money--and the employers, not the employees are the one's paying out. Does Dell, Apple or McDonnald Douglas, or any Fortune 100 company hire illegals as their main workforce?'

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil:
'YEP! but in other countries.'

shitbox to wolfer:
'You seem inclined to blame the degredation of the family unit and your own shortcomings as a parent and the subsequent and inevitable demise of the nation on illegal immigration. Blame coca-cola, blame wal-mart, blame capital-one and washington mutual. They are the ones making us pay the price.'

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil:
'Learn to distinguish Moral/Ethical concerns from Monitary/Policy/Politics. That's it really. Learn that no matter what your spiritual or other guidance may be, when it comes to LAW and MONEY there are vested interests at play that don't give a rat's ass about your belief system or fantasy worlds, but they won't hesistate to use them to further their monetary and/or political gains.'

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil:
'The real law breakers are the employers. Think War on Drugs Part VI--the dealer or the user, who do you want to lock up? Who do you rehabilitate? '

wolfer:

shitbox:
'Legal, taxable, trackable consumers, no different than anyone born here or not. Just more human sheep. I can't tell the difference (nither can GM or Pepsi) between you or any 'illegal' immigrant. Both are human beings*, both breathe, commit crimes and buy stuff. The good will be for those granted citizenship to this sweet and absurd country, and the corporations and businesses who will sell them products, and the federal government whom will tax all the above.'

'LOL'

boomboomdiggity:
'also, name calling is the lowest form of debate and goes to show that argument is weak...'

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil:
'if we didn't hire them, they wouldn't come here for jobs.'

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil:
'Oh yeah, I guess child labor would be OK too, if only it was legal...'

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil:
'Ethno-centric posturing against the 'foreign invasion' of the right-just homogenous american land is based on some shoddy reasoning.'

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil:
'And also notice that the blackmarket labor does not get paid the min. wage, they don't have healthcare, they don't pay taxes and they get exploited by Citizens of this great and just nation of immigrants.'

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil:
'And do note, if the Native American people would have had effective border patrol, none of yous would be here.'

Acheron:
'Illegal immigrants are rational wealth maximizers. They are doing as they should given their position.'

Acheron:
'They are proper capitalists and are going to completely subvert our anglocized society.'

Acheron:
'A whole lot, not all, are making a great deal more than minimum wage and employers are happy to pay for the higher productivity.'

Acheron:
'Deporting them is just going to create social distress and legitimize their political movement, not to mention create a gigantic expensive beauracratic mess.'

Acheron:
'A stupid fence will do nothing.'

Acheron:
'The debate is fractured three ways-with the business community seeming to loosely favor a temporary-work program.'

Acheron:
'Wire transfers South are meanwhile keeping a host of South/Central economies afloat with an influx of American cash. This is a legitimate economic/societal transformation that is going to occur regardless of any talk of 'rights' 'entitlement' or 'citizenship'.'

Acheron:
'I think its hilarious and I fully support Latin America's right to invade, undercut our wages, leech off our social system.'

Acheron:
'I mean, California wasn't supposed to be ours anyway.'

Acheron:
'To be fundamentally unable to adress the wealth gap that accounts for such a migration is ridiculous. Americans just can't even imagine why the movement is happening.'

wolfer:
'California along with New Mexico, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Arizona and Wyoming was ceded to the US under the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo as a condition to end the war. They were also given $15,000,000 in 1848 for the land and Mexico EXCEPTED the money.'

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil:
'the exploitation of the underage is done by economic not statist factors.'

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil:
'Same goes for the exploitation of cheap laborers.'

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil:
'Money making enterprises will go to extremes in abusing and exploiting humans because it's cheap and they can do it.'

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil:
'There is no 'this is not moral' cost associated with a business labor decision unless there exists a legal framework which makes it unacceptable.'

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil:
'Hence no child labor because it is too prone to abuse. '

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil:
'Also your version of fair wages is slavery because people can't afford to live off that money.'

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil:
'Also do remind yourself that the majority of immigrants targeted are from Latin America and don't speak a lick of enlglish--this belies the 'english only' and other [I dare say ethno-centric] elements behind the opposition.'

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil:
'The demographic distribution of the southwestern united snakes is largely hispanic because the territories it comprises were first settled [after killing off the indians] by Spain. [..and then some bullshit about brown skinned taco eaters...]'

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil:
'The problem with many of you folks is that you fail to realize that the level of ignorance and stupidity on one side of an argument in the public space is often times mirrored on the other.'

Acheron:
'asslicker. I hope your hobbesian paradigms rape you and leave you to die in the forest. That would be 'brutish' and 'short''