freakmachineWed Feb 01
 
As far as I can tell, all presidential speeches are hot air.
 
 
vladtweanoWed Feb 01
 
Yip. But for the last few years, Bush has enjoyed a lapdog press that rarely calls him on anything, when some simple fact-checking would reveal the bullshit. This is your 'liberal media'. Looks like a bunch of them got a hot spine injection today, though. There's another article from the AP today that tears his shit up, but it's in the queue.
 
 
nocalWed Feb 01
 
Best part: Bush warning against isolationism. WHAT.
 
 
SexNinjaWed Feb 01
 
What the frick was up with the gov. from Vagina pausing for five minutes between every other word in his response? That was painful.
 
 
vasudevaWed Feb 01
 
Robert Byrd. He's an old motherfuck.
 
 
vladtweanoWed Feb 01
 
Nah vas, it was this guy, Tim Kaine:

That eyebrow never descends.
 
 
barch97Wed Feb 01
 
while cindy sheehan's t-shirt got most of the press coverage, how 'bout rep bill young's wife being escorted out for wearing a 'support the troops' shirt?
 
 
vasudevaWed Feb 01
 
Well, he certainly can't claim Parkinsons.

He could claim Jack Nicholson face though.
 
 
vladtweanoWed Feb 01
 
Now the Washington Post gets in on the fact-checking act. I guess they all got Red Bull instead of their morning kool-ade.
 
 
wreckerWed Feb 01
 
Robert Byrd is from WEST Vagina. And he is an old fuck. Plus he was in the KKK.
 
 
vasudevaWed Feb 01
 
And can totally kick your ass.
 
 
barch97Wed Feb 01
 
and voted to confirm alito only a few hours before the state of the union speech. wouldn't he be the last choice of the DNC to give rebuttal?
 
 
vladtweanoWed Feb 01
 
The DNC? Probably. That's Dean's gig. The DLC (Democratic Leadership Council) is a group within the DNC. They're all centrist and afraid of shadows and don't want to make waves and think that the way to win elections is to be soft cuddly versions of Republicans (Hillary is among them). They're the ones responsible for Kaine giving the rebuttal instead of someone like Murtha, who probably would have melted the camera with his AngerVision. Kaine is a Jeebus Democrat, who the DLC figures will appeal to red state voters.

The DLC doesn't much like Howard Dean, or anyone who might shake things up. In effect, they're losers.
 
 
SillyRabbitWed Feb 01
 
Same ol chit.
The familiar feeling of a ripping asshole.
 
 
rfawkesWed Feb 01
 
This seems to be a fine liberal whine, acid to the tongue, but definitely fruity.
 
 
SexNinjaWed Feb 01
 
LIEbruls, lmao
 
 
hoboWed Feb 01
 
I liek pie. but i still know enough to say that the state of the union address was a populist speech with no actual merit.
 
 
StumpWed Feb 01
 
Was? Always is.
 
 
vladtweanoThu Feb 02
 
Administration backs off Bush's vow to reduce Mideast oil imports
By Kevin G. Hall
Knight Ridder Newspapers

WASHINGTON - One day after President Bush vowed to reduce America's dependence on Middle East oil by cutting imports from there 75 percent by 2025, his energy secretary and national economic adviser said Wednesday that the president didn't mean it literally.
 
 
nocalThu Feb 02
 
BWAHAHA. Figuratively?
 
 
mundhraThu Feb 02
   
 
vladtweanoThu Feb 02
   
 
nocalThu Feb 02
 
or embrace 'the false comfort of isolationism.' To which one can only respond: What?

Mr. Kaplan agrees with me.
 
 
LOkiThu Feb 02
 
vladtweano:
'Rebutting the hot air with facts.'

Ha. More like 'rebutting the hot air with myopic faith in the almighty church of BUSHSUX.'
About the American Progress Action Fund
The American Progress Action Fund is the sister advocacy organization of the Center for American Progress. The Action Fund transforms progressive ideas into policy through rapid response communications, legislative action, grassroots organizing and advocacy, and partnerships with other progressive leaders throughout the country and the world. The Action Fund is also the home of the Progress Report.


Who is the Center for American Progress?
'The Center for American Progress is a nonpartisan research and educational institute dedicated to ... [challenging] conservative thinking that undermines the bedrock American values of liberty, community and shared responsibility.'

In other words: just another frothy arm of the Church of BUSHSUX. I'm not at all impressed.

Let's examine some of these litte 'factual' bits they provide, yes?

FACT — POVERTY RATES HAVE INCREAED UNDER BUSH
Other FACT - So has the threshold for establishing poverty.
Other fact - Outside of the U.S., poverty means <$730/year/family of 4, while here it means <$17,463/year/family of 4. Outside of the U.S. poverty means rickets, polio, cholera--here, it means no cable.

The reality, is that most of the poor here don't really know what the fuk poor means. Of those that do, most of them don't know what coercive poverty means--they got poor all by themselves.

FACT — BUSH TAX CUTS TARGETED AT HIGH-INCOME HOUSEHOLDS
Other fact - The income tax targets high income households.
Other fact - The lowest 20% in income recieve taxes, while the top 20% pay ~80% of the tax burden--including that part that the lowest 20% get for nothing.

The reality is that the people who benefitted the most from the tax cuts were those who don't pay taxes anyway. The government not stealing as much from the rich as the poor would like is not a benefit for the rich--it's just less stealing.

FACT — BUSH PROPOSED FIRST CUT IN EDUCATION SPENDING IN A DECADE
Other Fact - The past egregious spending on public education has not proven effective--perhaps teaching might work instead.

FACT — SCIENCE EDUCATION HAS SUFFERED UNDER BUSH’S TERM: No Child Left Behind has actually hurt science education, by testing exclusively on math and reading. Some “teachers are being told to stop teaching science and get back to reading and math,” complains Gerald Wheeler
Other Fact - Being unable to read or perform math causes science to suffer much more.

The reality is that spending on education does not improve education nearly effectively as accountability does. And I don't mean accountability to tests--I mean accountability to those paying for it. Accountability will only come from the rewards of success, and the consequences of failure, of these public institutions of indoctrination competing with private institutions of indoctrination.

FACT — BUSH HAS INCREASED DEPENDENCE ON FOREIGN OIL
Other Fact - Bush had nothing to do with our nation's dependence on foriegn oil.

The reality is that our own demand for oil is 100% resposible for our dependence on foriegn oil.

FACT — HSA (Health Savings Account) USERS MORE LIKELY TO HAVE DIFFICULTY PAYING MEDICAL BILLS
Other Fact - People who save for their own health care now are having difficulty paying for the governmet subsidized healthcare in already in place.

FACT — HSA COST SAVINGS ARE ILLUSORY
Other Fact - The costs of unaccountable government bureauocrcy and insurance administration are not illusory.

FACT — HSA USERS PAY MORE OUT-OF-POCKET COSTS
Other Fact - It's their healthcare; they should pay for it from their own pockets.

FACT — HSA USERS MORE LIKELY TO AVOID, SKIP, OR DELAY HEALTH CARE BECAUSE OF COSTS
Other Fact - Everyone avoids, skips, or delays all kinds of things (like BBPs, for instance) because of costs--so what?

FACT — BUSH TAX CUTS WOULD WORSEN THE DEFICIT
Other Fact - Government over-spending is the only thing that makes deficits worse.
Other Fact - These shitheads like to pretend that Bush invented deficit spending.

FACT — TAX CUTS WILL COST $3.4 TRILLION OVER TEN YEARS
Other Fact - Tax cuts cost nothing; but one payer healthcare would cost trillions.

FACT — PERMANENT TAX CUTS OVERWHELMINGLY FAVOR THE WEALTHIEST
Other Fact - You cannot cut the taxes of those who do not pay taxes.
Other Fact - Mathematically tax cuts must be somewhat proportional to the amount taxed, so neccessarily, if there are tax cuts, those who pay the most taxes (the rich in a progressive system) will have more of their tax burden cut.

FACT — DEFICITS CAUSED BY TAX CUTS NEGATE ANY POTENTIAL ECONOMIC BENEFITS (OF THE TAX CUTS)
Other Fact - Government spending on social security, public education, medicare and medicaid, farm subsidies, corporate bail-outs, minimum wage protections, the war on poverty, the war on drugs, and the war on terror are what really negated economic benefits of the tax cuts.

FACT — JOB GROWTH UNDER BUSH LOWEST SINCE WORLD WAR II
Other Fact - The Federal minimum wage is higher than it has ever been since WWII.

FACT — FEDERAL SPENDING ON WORKER EDUCATION AND TRAINING IS LOW
Other Fact -Federal spending on worker education and traing is still $1.5 billion too high.

FACT — WORKERS ARE LOSING PENSIONS
Other Fact - Workers perfoming tasks worth $0.50/hour are getting paid $7.50/hour to do them--which in turn requires workers who perfom tasks worth $7.50/hour to get paid $15.00/hour so they can afford that $5.00 double skim half decaf hazlenut latte the first asshole is serving.
 
 
mundhraThu Feb 02
 
UPROAR!!
 
 
vladtweanoThu Feb 02
 
In other words: just another frothy arm of the Church of BUSHSUX. I'm not at all impressed.

Damn! And I was really hoping to impress you.

Your endless one-note chorus of 'Bush critics just hate Bush' comes from the same ideological low road that you accuse the Bush critics of using. It eschews pragmatism entirely in favor of the assumption that the criticism will cease when 'their' candidate is elected, a position as mired in politics as the windmill you tilt at (if not moreso when you add indifference and cynicism, ingredients that make your proclaimed reverence for country and constitution seem especially disingenuous, or they would if I didn't know better).

Your dismissal of the source of this article could be easily countered with a dismissal of your rote chapter & verse from places like reason.com, tech central station and the cato institute. Your voluminous refutations offer plenty of openings for argument (e.g., most of them don't know what coercive poverty means--they got poor all by themselves., the people who benefitted the most from the tax cuts were those who don't pay taxes anyway) and logical fallacy (e.g., The past egregious spending on public education has not proven effective, Bush had nothing to do with our nation's dependence on foriegn oil), but what they really provide is messy cover for an easy way out, so I won't be suckered in. Besides, you long ago pledged to 'defend this fuk to the bitter end'. In short, Lokes, you just love Bush. You looooooooooooooove him. You are the high priest of the church of Bushsucker. I'm not impressed.
 
 
LOkiThu Feb 02
 
mundhra:'UPROAR!'
:D

vladtweano: 'Your endless one-note chorus of 'Bush critics just hate Bush' comes from the same ideological low road that you accuse the Bush critics of using.'
Not so. I criticized Bush, but not from the same premises that idological low roaders you mention do. Present arguments to me, from those who attack the same issue with the same rabid vehemence regardless of party affiliation, and you might parse a change in my tune. You'll never hear it over the sheep blatting BUSHSUX chorus.

vladtweano: 'It eschews pragmatism entirely in favor of the assumption that the criticism will cease when 'their' candidate is elected, a position as mired in politics as the windmill you tilt at .'
Nonsense. This cessation of criticism has historical foundation. None of the 'crimes' Bush has committed were hardly of note to the folks at the Center For American Progress when their liberal candidates were committing them anymore than the Bush proponents take note of them now. And yes, I eschew this 'pragmatism' that states 'infractions of the rules are only worth noting if the other team is guilty.'

vladtweano: 'Your dismissal of the source of this article could be easily countered with a dismissal of your rote chapter & verse from places like reason.com, tech central station and the cato institute. '
Look. I really haven't checked carefully, but I'm pretty sure that Reason, Tech Central, and Cato don't claim to be 'Non-partisan organizations against liberals.' I think they are genuinely against liberal ideology primarily because liberal are wrong on virtually all counts. From their notions of rights, to their economic justic, to their environmental nannyism.

Though I don't consciously argue 'rote chapter & verse from places like reason.com, tech central station and the cato institute,' I find it interesting that you react with such indignation that I might. In my perusal of their articles, I find them plenty in disagreement with Bush/Republican/Conservative policies. I also find them in agreement, and I think that agreement is the heresy against BUSHSUX that draws your ire and dismissal--not that they make a point.

vladtweano: 'Your voluminous refutations offer plenty of openings for argument, and logical fallacy, but what they really provide is messy cover for an easy way out, so I won't be suckered in.'
Yeah. Whatever.

vladtweano: 'Besides, you long ago pledged to 'defend this fuk to the bitter end'. In short, Lokes, you just love Bush. You looooooooooooooove him. You are the high priest of the church of Bushsucker. I'm not impressed.'
Yeah. I said that. I said that within the context and perspective of counterbalancing this droning BUSHSUXJUSTCUZ mantra; so I'm not surprised that you're not impressed on those grounds.

I just think that there are plenty of reasons to disagree violently with the policies of the Bush administration without making reasons up, without hypocracy, and still maintaining intellectual, idological and moral integrity. The Church of BUSHSUX (and these 'non-partisan' yet partisan asshoels) fail on all three accounts. You fail to impress only by association. :D
 
 
vladtweanoThu Feb 02
 
Blargy blarg. Here's a similar piece from the AP. Non-Bushsuxy enough for you? Nah, what am I thinking? They're the liberal media.
 
 
vladtweanoThu Feb 02
 
And why the fuck do all you other puds shut up whenever Loki and I do this? Let's have it, or you get the shit seats in Valhalla. To glory, dogs!
 
 
CrackalackinThu Feb 02
 
Because you cannot explain colors to a blind man.

Because his mind is a one-way street, and the way is out.
 
 
vladtweanoThu Feb 02
 
Rubbish. You will wash the dishes.
 
 
nocalThu Feb 02
 
FACT — HSA USERS MORE LIKELY TO AVOID, SKIP, OR DELAY HEALTH CARE BECAUSE OF COSTS
Other Fact - Everyone avoids, skips, or delays all kinds of things (like BBPs, for instance) because of costs--so what?


BBP != Healthcare

FACT — BUSH TAX CUTS WOULD WORSEN THE DEFICIT
Other Fact - Government over-spending is the only thing that makes deficits worse.
Other Fact - These shitheads like to pretend that Bush invented deficit spending.


For being so against big gov't, you don't seem to care about gov't overspending.
Other fact - These shitheads remember that we had a surplus after Clinton.

FACT — PERMANENT TAX CUTS OVERWHELMINGLY FAVOR THE WEALTHIEST
Other Fact - You cannot cut the taxes of those who do not pay taxes.


Who can afford tax lawyers? Who can afford to pay accountants? The rich. There are loopholes aplenty, because politicians are, by and large, rich. Therefore, the rich manage to get away with manipulating the system and not paying as much as you might think they do.

FACT — JOB GROWTH UNDER BUSH LOWEST SINCE WORLD WAR II
Other Fact - The Federal minimum wage is higher than it has ever been since WWII.


Other fact - the federal minimum wage has not been raised since 1997.
Other fact - Correlation does not necessarily imply causation. But don't let that get in the way of your SUCKINGBUSH.
 
 
acheronThu Feb 02
 
Please don't rebutt the minimum wage argument, PLEASE, I've heard it so many times my headhurts contemplating your furious denunciation of government imposition on industry.

I agree on the deficit spending thing, people think Bush created it, another element of the Bush=Reagan=God equation going on in the minds of repubs.

'To glory, dogs!'

Its all been done, the arguments end up an ideological shit war without anyone winning. But, for my part:

'In other words: just another frothy arm of the Church of BUSHSUX. I'm not at all impressed.'

Who the fuck cares? Its a think take that stated the word 'progressive' in its mission statement. I'm sure the heritage foundation says 'conservative' in theirs, it doesn't make me ignore their arguments automatically. Arguments have to be taken on an individual basis. So much of your arguments are based solely on the refutation of the rhetoric used second hand by some guy who wrote that the institute that whoever belongs to is 'liberal' and then you proceed to paste on useless commentary link about what the word means etc. etc. I'M NOT IMPRESSED. That said, this isn't designed to actually go anywhere anyway, its just who can make fun of who with the more caustic, clever rhetoric (admittedly, somewhat being engage in right now). We've been down this road before, lets do the motions again, for old times sake.
 
 
jwalkerFri Feb 03
 
This administration is not business as usual. You know how secretive they are and always trying to get away with stuff? I think they're up to something.
 
 
wreckerFri Feb 03
 
Who can afford tax lawyers? Who can afford to pay accountants? The rich. There are loopholes aplenty, because politicians are, by and large, rich. Therefore, the rich manage to get away with manipulating the system and not paying as much as you might think they do.

Everyone bitches and moans about how the current tax system isn't fair and that it's full of loopholes. But anytime someone proposes a better or different system, they are laughed out of the room like they are insane. How many of you complaining about the tax cuts, etc (Bush supporters and Bush haters alike) have actually called your senators and representatives to tell them to support some kind of tax reform, like a flat tax or whatever? I know I have, but I am only one person.
 
 
vladtweanoFri Feb 03
 
Called and emailed. I don't think they read email. Hell I'm not sure they can read.
 
 
LOkiFri Feb 03
 
vladtweano:
' Blargy blarg. Here's a similar piece from the AP. Non-Bushsuxy enough for you? Nah, what am I thinking? They're the liberal media. '

Liberal or not--they are certainly thoughtless. It's like they said 'BUSHSUX blargy blarg.' Just not as mercifully conscise.

ENERGY:
By identifying only Mideast oil imports for reductions, Bush was ignoring some of the largest sources of U.S. petroleum, among them Canada, Mexico, Nigeria and Venezuela. The U.S. considers Venezuela a source of political instability in the region; relations with Mexico have been strained over immigration; and violence has curbed nearly 10 percent of Nigeria's oil output.
They forgot about Poland.

They also forgot that as long as the oil is in unstable countries, and we continue to demand petroleum fire gadgets, we will continue to demand oil from unstable countries.

This, of course, has not been deemed a crime the President committed during the administrations of JFK, LBJ, Jimmy Goober or WJ Clinton.

I hold that if this policy is bad now, it was just as bad then, and these freakshows didn't peep. The Church is wrong.

HEALTH CARE:
Noting that the government must help provide health care for the poor and elderly, Bush asserted, 'We are meeting that responsibility.'
It does not, and I hope he's just bullshitting the rubes.

HEALTHCARE continued:
It is true that a new prescription drug benefit took effect this year, a new entitlement for up to 42 million disabled and older people. But implementation has been rocky: Mark McClellan, the administration's top Medicare official, recently acknowledged that tens of thousands of recipients probably didn't get medicine due to confusion and computer glitches, prompting some lawmakers to seek an extension of the May 15 signup deadline to work out the snafus.
I'm pissed that 42 million useless fuks are not paying for their medication, and using the government to hold me accounable for their fuking bills.

I've got a better plan. Everybody gets just as much medication as they can afford, and no one gets ripped off. It works like this: I'll pay for my own medication, and they can pay for theirs.

HEALTHCARE continued:
The number of uninsured has increased nearly 5 million since Bush took office in 2001, to 45.5 million in 2004, two-thirds of the total from low-income families, according to the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation.
According to the non-partisan LOki Foundation, insurance companies are crying like little babys that they are losing the premiums from 5 million uninsured, and the politicians who are lobbied by the healthcare insurance industry are crying because the Carribean Cruise/Research Junket now has a cash bar--all the while insurance still fails to make healthcare affordable. Ever consider that possibility that our current healthcare insurance paradigm is the fuking cause of unaffordable healthcare rather than the solution to it?

HEALTHCARE continued:
And while total federal spending on the health care 'safety net' for the uninsured edged up from 2001 to 2004 - adjusted for inflation, slightly more than 1 percent - spending actually decreased from $546 to $498 per uninsured person due to the jump in uninsured, the Kaiser group said.
So, the uninsured got $498 of healthcare for nothing--how is this bad? Since when are beggars allowed to be choosers? These asshoels have balls of steel to first take their bill money from me by force, and then bitch that I have not ponied up enough.

SOCIAL SECURITY:
Bush said Congress did not act last year on his 'proposal to save Social Security.' In fact, his plan does not take care of Social Security's future solvency; instead, he wants to let younger workers divert some of their Social Security payroll taxes into private investment accounts to take advantage of the possibilities for a better return.
Well, Bush might not find it politically expedient to say this, but I'm under no such constraints: Social Security is financially and morally bankrupt. The solution to the Social Security problem is to get rid of Social Security. The way to get rid of Social Security the fast way is to just stop writing all the checks and stop collecting the involuntary 'contribution' today, and then let younger workers divert ALL of their Social Security payroll taxes into private investment accounts to take advantage of the possibilities for a better return. The slow way is to phase it out gradually which is exactly what letting 'younger workers divert some of their Social Security payroll taxes into private investment accounts to take advantage of the possibilities for a better return' is the first step of.

SPENDING:
The president said that 'every year of my presidency, we have reduced the growth of non-security discretionary spending.' That doesn't tell the full story because the category he cited omits big-ticket spending items like Iraq, natural disasters such as Katrina and homeland security.
Failing to be able to 'ballpark' the cost of Iraq is inexcusable, but to imply and then complain that one one hand that Katrina relief spending is evidence of and ever expanding deficit policy, and then on the other hand complain that the releif spending is insufficient, just illustrates my point that these fukers really have some other underlying axe on the grinder and they are not motivated to shed light on actual gripes.

SPENDING continued:
He spoke of saving taxpayers $14 billion next year if his budget proposals are adopted, not mentioning some of those savings would come from health care programs such as Medicaid.
We can only hope. But the reality is that the socialists in this country and the shiftless and shameless freeloaders, will whip up a shitstorm so violent that these cuts and the susequent tax savings will not be realized--and then these same fuks will still blame Bush.

nocal:
FACT — BUSH TAX CUTS WOULD WORSEN THE DEFICIT
Other Fact - Government over-spending is the only thing that makes deficits worse.
Other Fact - These shitheads like to pretend that Bush invented deficit spending.

'For being so against big gov't, you don't seem to care about gov't overspending.
Other fact - These shitheads remember that we had a surplus after Clinton.'
Since I'm the one who brought up and bitched about over-spending, I'd say you care more about your crack pipe than reading what I wrote.

There was no surplus; if there were, there would be no defecit. Since the government was still opering under a defecit that the 'surplus' did not cover, there could not have been a surplus. Unless of course, you use the accounting tool of off budget spending, which the above article criticized Bush for doing when they said he failed to include Iraq, Katrina, etc.

Clinton used bullshit budget accounting to come up with a 'surplus' and the congregation of BUSHSUX lets out an 'AMEN!', Bush uses bullshit budget accounting to come up with 'tax savings' and the BUSHSUX congregation screams 'BULLSHIT!' Welcome to the congregation. :D

nocal:
FACT — PERMANENT TAX CUTS OVERWHELMINGLY FAVOR THE WEALTHIEST
Other Fact - You cannot cut the taxes of those who do not pay taxes.

'Who can afford tax lawyers? Who can afford to pay accountants? The rich. There are loopholes aplenty, because politicians are, by and large, rich. Therefore, the rich manage to get away with manipulating the system and not paying as much as you might think they do.'
No matter how you'd like to cut it, no matter how many lawyers are involved, the top 25% of wage earners pay ~84% of the taxes while the bottom 50% actually only are responsible for paying ~4% of the taxes--the lowest 20% actually get more money from the government than they pay.

How is it that lower 50% of earners, who pay less than 1% of the tax burden, claim that despite the cuts, to top 50% who carry more than 99% of the tax burden are somehow 'overwhelmingly favored'? I'd say it's more accurate to claim that they are overwhelmingly penalized.
 
 
vladtweanoFri Feb 03
 
Bush: Ducks are cows.

CAP & AP: No, ducks are birds.

Loki: Ducks are waterfowl that swim in fish poop. They are morally bankrupt. Leave Bush alone.
 
 
LOkiFri Feb 03
 
Republicans: We're totalitarian statists, but we're totalitarians for the greater good.

Democrats: We're totalitarian statists, but we're totalitarians for the common good.

CAP & AP: Republicans are liars.

LOki: All totalitartians suck.

vladtweano: I will not respond to LOki's libertarian blargy blarg! The church of BUSHSUX is not partisan; the vast right wing CAP & AP says so.
 
 
vladtweanoFri Feb 03
 
OK, let's try again:

Bush said some stuff.

CAP & AP (and the LA Times and the Washington Post and Slate and Knight-Ridder point out that the stuff Bush said doesn't jive with the way things are. They're making a very basic and clear point (they must be, because I can't fathom any other reason for them to suddenly start doing their jobs beside the fact that Bush made it monumentally simple).

You argue that ^those people are full of shit because the way things are is subjective and/or not the way things ought to be. You entirely circumvent their assertions that Bush and even the basest reality are, shall we say, lo-fi. This is why I will not get into a refutation of your prolific blargy-blarg. It's arguing off-point. You love this tactic, and I love you *smooch*.

Now if you want to refute one or more of their 'this is incorrect' statements with 'no it isn't', I'll be more than happy to listen and discuss it.
 
 
barch97Fri Feb 03
 
librarians are HAWT
 
 
hoboFri Feb 03
 
LOki has fled to Canada as of 2:00pm est 2/3/06
 
 
vladtweanoFri Feb 03
 
I knew he would. Pussy.
 
 
CrackalackinFri Feb 03
 
I would flee to Canada for pussy, too.
 
 
barch97Fri Feb 03
 


'I don't know but I been told...
eskimo pussy is mighty cold'
 
 
wreckerFri Feb 03
 
^^^WTF is up with that dickskinner's RED SHOES???^^^


'YOU WANT TO BE A FUKING INDIVIDUAL?!?!?!'
 
 
SexNinjaFri Feb 03
 
Individual 'impending menses-warning' footwear.
 
 
MofoFri Feb 03
 
Loki, what is the national government supposed to do? You hate everything it does, so what would you like it to do?
 
 
government_death_robotFri Feb 03
 
People watch those things?
 
 
nocalFri Feb 03
 
There was no surplus; if there were, there would be no defecit.

So I'm not the only one with the crack pipe. This article has the story (unless a business mag is too liberal for you), and it sounds to me like Clinton had a surplus to due, in part, to a strong economy. When a war can't fucking pick the economy up by the bootstraps, you know that you've outsourced your country to the point of no return. I'd think that you would agree with that actually.

Here is a CS Monitor article that states, in part:

If the Bush tax cuts are made permanent by Congress, by 2010 billionaires and millionaires will be paying a smaller percentage of their income in federal taxes than those in the upper middle class, according to a calculation by Brian Roach, an economist at Tufts University, in Medford, Mass.

If you really think that trickle-down economics works, then you probably don't mind this. I don't particularly think it's fair that a billionaire will be paying less in taxes than I will be paying in only 4 years. They have more that needs to be protected by society, which should cost them more. America has given them a motherfucking shitload, how about they give some (they won't starve for chrissakes) back?
 
 
nexisFri Feb 03
 
i dont have a relevant link or article. and i'm so glad i missed his ramblings. i have more interest in the article about the guy pumping silicone into his junk. although, i wish i didn't.
 
 
vasudevaSat Feb 04
 
In other words, there's no reasonable explanation for you commenting at all? Sweet.


Nocal: If you really think that trickle-down economics works, then you probably don't mind this. I don't particularly think it's fair that a billionaire will be paying less in taxes than I will be paying in only 4 years.

But that billionaire is presumably doing a great part in keeping the economy running -- or so I was always told by the financially-minded token conservative office-mate.

On the other hand, the guy was a shit-hat in many ways, and I caught him forwarding a chain letter email about John Edwards chasing ambulances and screwing the poor that 8 seconds on Snopes debunked.

Any way, I was never quite sure how the hoarding of wealth was supposed to contribute to the economy. It may be that it does... I just can't figure out the mechanics of it.
 
 
jwalkerSat Feb 04
 
[sarcasm]Well, if you think about it, it makes perfect sense. The billionaire starts a new business (say a coal mine or megafarm) and then lets some poor suckers work for him for a minimum wage (see above) - that's called 'economy' and it keeps the wheels turning.[/sarcasm]

But you'll rarely hear anyone talking about the economy and standard of living in the same sentence.
 
 
jwalkerSat Feb 04
 
...and on animal-human cloning: The Chinese population has a rare mutation causing a degenerative eye disease called autosomal dominant retinitis pigmentosa. Scientists hope that stem cell therapy could eventually provide a cure for the condition but they need stem cell lines with certain characteristics. They will need to develop a large number of similar stem cell lines. The possibility of related women donating a large number of eggs is remote. A more feasible alternative is to fuse an adult human cell with the enucleated egg of an animal such as a rabbit to create a embryo, in which the vast majority of the DNA is human, which will develop far enough for stem cells to be harvested. Should this be legal?>/i>

for shame
 
 
vladtweanoSun Feb 05
 
Yeah the human-animal hybrid comment was weird even coming from Bush.
 
 
mrmediaSun Feb 05
 
The president sucks he lies and flips off the camera
 
 
nocalSun Feb 05
 
^ well I hate to say it, but your site's not so good
 
 
LOkiMon Feb 06
 
vladtweano:
'You argue that ^those people are full of shit because the way things are is subjective and/or not the way things ought to be. You entirely circumvent their assertions that Bush and even the basest reality are, shall we say, lo-fi. This is why I will not get into a refutation of your prolific blargy-blarg. It's arguing off-point.

Yes. I admit that it is off the point. It is likely that--and might be only my hallucination--that is already a foregone conclusion that someone in the government is not being completely ingenuous about the way they conduct their business and present it to us.

So why should I fix opon that? It's alot of bullshit. Yes, this president is bullshitting us--alot. Why the indignation now after the all the bullshit that came from the last president, and the one before him, and the one before him, and the ...? Why the furious mining for the special golden partisan nugget of bullshit when there are great steaming piles of fully offensive bulshit aplenty right there? Why the great efforts to distill and refine the bullshit derived from trying to present bullshit political principle into the 'greater good for the common man' when right on the fuking top is the crux of the buscuit, the actual fetid turd nugget from which all the bullshit ultimately derives--that being the electorate managing to give away esssential liberties in favor of temporary security, complacent comforts, and abdication of any personal responsibilty for their lives, and the enthusiastic (and non-partisan) willingness of the elected to take those libertys from us and turn them into their own personal priviledges and entitlements.

I know the answer to this. The answer is that doing so means discovering that it is our own lack of vision, and bullshit principles that lead us to electing the politicians with lack of vision and bullshit principles. So excuse me if I don't argue wether or not the president (any president) is bullshitting us, because I've already accepted the premise; and if my prolific blargy blag principles are not welcome, then you'll get me arguing from your own. You'll find me partisanly dismissing partisan bullshit for sole purpose of demonstrating that such bullshit is fully, and genuinely, bi-partisan.(the use of 'you' is in the general sense, rather than the specific vlad sense--you still know who you are.)

And as far as the case for these socialist fuks and their SOTU couterpoints, you'll note I stayed completely away from their constitutional criticisms, and attacked their utterly bullshit, factually disingenuous, and morally bankrupt redistributionist economic justice points.

Mofo:
'Loki, what is the national government supposed to do? You hate everything it does, so what would you like it to do?'Alot less of the shit it shouldn't be doing.

For starters:
It should stop it's attempts at establishing state religion (faith initiatives) as well as preventing us from practicing what religion(s) we ascribe to freely (prayer in schoool).

It should stop preventing us from peaceably assembling, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances (free speech zones).

It should stop abridging the freedom of speech and the press (FCC).

It should stop infringing upon the right of the people to keep and bear arms (Brady Bill, Assault weapons ban, registration, licensing, etc...).

It should stop warrantless collection of information.

It should stop seizing property without cause (Emminent domain, drug siezure).

It should stop the detention od suspects without accusal or suspicion, trial or access to counsel (Gitmo).

It can also stop forcing one batch of citizens to subsidize the stupidity or misfortune, of another batch of citizens (farm subsidies, corporate bail-outs, social security, medicaid/medicare, welfare, etc...)

As far as what it can do:
Provide for the national defense.

Provide and adminstrate courts of justice.

Run the mint.

Deal with foreign nations.

Protect our rights.

Uphold the limits on their powers.

nocal:
'So I'm not the only one with the crack pipe. This article has the story (unless a business mag is too liberal for you), and it sounds to me like Clinton had a surplus to due, in part, to a strong economy.'
What this article says:
''Treasury Secretary John Snow:...the president's (Bush) legacy will be one of having significantly reduced the deficit in his time,' and said Clinton's budget was a 'mirage' and 'wasn't a real surplus.'

Snow has some support for his view. 'Capital gains receipts were unusually high' during the last years of the Clinton administration, said Ed McKelvey, senior U.S. economist at Goldman, Sachs & Co. in New York. He estimated that when the budget surplus reached a peak of $237 billion in 2000, capital gains tax payments were about $90 billion higher than the norm for the early-to-mid 1990s.

Government forecasts for continued surpluses depended on those tax payments continuing, Snow, 66, said. 'You're going to make a lot of mistakes if you forecast based on a bubble,' he said. 'Bubbles burst.'

James Lucier, a political analyst at Prudential Equity Group Inc. in Washington and former economic research director at Americans for Tax Reform, said the projected surpluses weren't real because of the 'artificial' way Congress accounts for spending.'
The complete and unabridged retort to the assertion that the Clinton administration's surplust was a 'mirage':
'The surpluses in the late '90s weren't a mirage, ... said Chris Rupkey, senior financial economist at Bank of Tokyo Mitsubishi Ltd. in New York.'
Snow's and McKelvey's characterization of the foundations for claiming the Clinton surplus as being a mirage appears sensible and accurate. The fact that the mirage surplus did not eliminate the actual defecit seems to agree with their assertion, and mine.

What his article really says is that over-spending is the real culprit--an assertion that I have agreed with from the very begining.

Read more, smoke crack less, and thanks for the article. ;)

Your next article linked still doesn't accept that the 'billionaires'still pay more taxes than enyone else, and that the 'billionaires', regardless of what percentage of their income is being discussed, still pay a far greater share of the tax burden that anyone else.

nocal:
'I don't particularly think it's fair that a billionaire will be paying less in taxes than I will be paying in only 4 years.'

I would suggest that if you believe that their share is as paltry as you suggest, that you write the check for their taxes, and have them write the check for yours.

nocal:
'They have more that needs to be protected by society, which should cost them more. America has given them a motherfucking shitload, how about they give some (they won't starve for chrissakes) back?'

You discount the value they have contributed to society. If you actually accounted for that value, you might come to the realization that they are the ones getting ripped off by taxes and you bullshit redistributionist economic injustic, and that instead, you should be giving them something back.

vasudeva:
'Any way, I was never quite sure how the hoarding of wealth was supposed to contribute to the economy. It may be that it does... I just can't figure out the mechanics of it.'

What you describe is the Donald Duck's rich uncle myth of capitalist wealth. Hoarded value is hardly value in any economic sense what-so-ever.

In order to have money be valuable, it must be spent--particularly the kind of money that we have now, that is not based on the value of some rare commodity.


dreymers:
'[sarcasm]Well, if you think about it, it makes perfect sense. The billionaire starts a new business (say a coal mine or megafarm) and then lets some poor suckers work for him for a minimum wage (see above) - that's called 'economy' and it keeps the wheels turning.[/sarcasm]

But you'll rarely hear anyone talking about the economy and standard of living in the same sentence.'


You'll hear me talking about the economy and standard of living in the same sentence; in fact I will argue that all your hand wringing over 'sweat shop' conditions is a lot of bullshit in the end, particularly if your assertion is that free market labor, and not governmet manipulations are the culprit of labor's misery.
 
 
vasudevaMon Feb 06
 
LOki: What you describe is the Donald Duck's rich uncle myth of capitalist wealth. Hoarded value is hardly value in any economic sense what-so-ever.

PROTIP: That's Scrooge McDuck yo.
 
 
vladtweanoMon Feb 06
 
So excuse me if I don't argue wether or not the president (any president) is bullshitting us, because I've already accepted the premise; and if my prolific blargy blag principles are not welcome, then you'll get me arguing from your own.

So you accept the premise of the article(s). You just think that whether or not the Preznit is bullshitting us is pointless. Got it, and in well under 5000 words.
 
 
LOkiMon Feb 06
 
vladtweano:
'So you accept the premise of the article(s). You just think that whether or not the Preznit is bullshitting us is pointless. Got it, and in well under 5000 words.'

Sure. And yes, it's pointless if facts, reason and principles are actually meaningless in the discussion. You see, considering the political climate I've been exposed to since Saturday morning cartoons, if any president pointed at the ceiling, and claimed that whatever (thingy of goodness or badness) is from down, I'd still be less concerned with his bullshit than I am with the way his opponents franticly and furiously stand on their heads with moral indigation to demonstrate he's wrong.
 
 
freakmachineMon Feb 06
 
I come away from this with a renewed sense of hoplessness
 
 
vladtweanoMon Feb 06
 
Right. The AP and Knight-Ridder and others are misguided. They're just not wrong.
 
 
jwalkerMon Feb 06
 
LOki:
You'll hear me talking about the economy and standard of living in the same sentence; in fact I will argue that all your hand wringing over 'sweat shop' conditions is a lot of bullshit in the end, particularly if your assertion is that free market labor, and not governmet manipulations are the culprit of labor's misery.

Stop typecasting me - the only wringing my hands will be doing is around your neck.

Tell me your definition of wealth.
 
 
vladtweanoMon Feb 06
 
Stop typecasting me

It's called pigeonholing. He does it to housepets too.
 
 
IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhilMon Feb 06
 
YO, LOWKEY, man, get a whoar and a blow-jeb, er job...

I actually agree with your prinicipia narcosyndicat-ia with a side of collective TED NUGENT post-apocalyptic ded-critter-loin-cloth-wearing views; sort of. But I don't want that collective crapola mr. libertrarian; going all pushy and trying to force freedom on people. They can't handle that level of freedom. They are not solcialized to accept pragmatism as an absolute ally; there must be some intermidiary 'spirit' or 'soul' to direct their narcissistic coddling of 'FREEDOM' and 'LIBERTY'...

A dellusional mythos built on 18th Century reports of Man untouched by the cruel artifice of LAWS. The