why do you fear the federal government but think it's ok for local yokels to breathe down your neck if they want to? i think you're willing to cede too many of your rights to the state.
It is a lot easier for me to move to Massachusetts or California than... um... France. I'd rather have local oppressions than national ones.
As for the 1st Amendment it reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
Posting the Ten Commandments is not the same as telling someone that they have to believe that God dictated them to Moses. In fact, Congress has been expressly told not to interfere with the free exercise of religion.
Is not voluntary prayer in schools free exercise thereof? Would you fault someone for arguing that?
Buttfucking is hardly free-speech. While I am personally in favor of allowing buttfucking in private, I will remain in a buttfuck-friendly state, like NJ. If we are going to give unlimited jurisdiction to the federal government, then we ought to just eliminate state governments altogether and write a new constitution.
Actually he introduced an amendment that allowed parent's rights.
Maybe this upsets you because you majored in Psych?
the fact that i majored in psych gives me the rare ability to search pubmed for articles about ADD/ADHD. i happen to know, factually, that cognitive therapy is more effective than medication. so your assumption is wrong. whether or not ADD/ADHD exist (and i believe that they don't), i don't think they should be medicated at any point. the fact is that ron paul pretty much agrees to stamp his name on any fucking product and associate with any scumbag. this is a foundation run by the church of scientology that claims that there is no such thing as mental illness. there are only so many times he can plead innocence by ignorance.
They asked him for a quote probably. Have you seen the movie? His appearance doesn't necessarily mean an endorsement. Republican congressmen have appeared in Michael Moore movies...
you don't have to agree, but some people see gay marriage as a right, and i think that there are some things that shouldn't be restricted no matter who votes in my neighborhood. likewise you might agree that an amendment banning gun ownership, while constitutional, would be a travesty and looked back upon with scorn and thought of as a time when we were being stupid heads.
I kind of do agree, actually, which is why I agree with Ron Paul. The government has no business regulating Marriage. Marriage worked just fine before the government got involved. Ron Paul wants NO government involvement in Marriage (and esp. not federal involvement), which is the correct way to address it. When the government gets to stamp approval on a wedding, nobody has the right to marry -- the government has the right to LET YOU marry. That's just gay.
you know i actually thought about this, and here is why you're dumb:
if he was really all about gold currency, he would invest in actual physical gold. those mines profit off of FIAT MONEY just like any other american business. so he is making more fiat money off them through something he repeatedly endorses politically. sounds like a clear conflict of interest. very sleazy.
It's still a post hoc argument. I would expect someone who believes in the Gold standard to invest in gold and gold mining companies. (Full disclosure: I worked for the IR firm that represented half of those mining companies in that list and know a lot about their business).
From a speech Ron gave in the House: "Buying gold and holding it is somewhat analogous to converting one’s savings into one hundred dollar bills and hiding them under the mattress-- yet not exactly the same. Both gold and dollars are considered money, and holding money does not qualify as an investment."
Investing in gold is a hedge against the declining dollar. Gold maintains value while the dollar drops, buying gold means that your money maintains value. Buying gold mines is an investment that increases in value. My guess is that he prob. owns SOME gold as well -- although unless you make a short-term investment, it's really hard to buy gold on the open market as an investment (seriously, there isn't any available gold-backed currency -- at least not that you can trust, and who wants to build a vault in their house to store gold bullion?). Gold Mines do their business in gold. They are also amazingly risky investments.
No. He believes that if Lincoln respected the Constitution, that the Civil War would not have happened. The slavery comment was in response to Tim Russert's assertion that had Lincoln not violated the constitution that "we'd still have slavery!" Ron Paul argued that such a payment was one potential way to end slavery.
ok so basically it is exactly what i said.
Except historically accurate. Ron Paul doesn't believe that the Civil War was fought over slavery. Slavery is a separate issue that could've been resolved without violating the constitution.
several sources say it's lew rockwell, like i said.
I didn't see you name Lew Rockwell... did you? Sorry. The guy who named Lew Rockwell was Eric Dondero, who WAS fired by Ron Paul around the same time the newsletter scandal emerged... Lew Rockwell is not employed by Ron Paul, and was only briefly employed by him during his first stint in Congress. Lew Rockwell is currently the Director of the Ludwig von Mises Institute at Auburn University and (for what it's worth, has a much different writing style from those Newsletters -- I agree with the Dondero speculation because he was fired around that time, and happens to write in the middle-school style of the newsletters).
____________________ Synergy means behavior of whole systems unpredicted by the behavior of their parts taken separately; except on holidays and weekends.
It is a lot easier for me to move to Massachusetts or California than... um... France. I'd rather have local oppressions than national ones.
i'd rather have no oppressions period, but i think we all know that that will never happen to every person's standards. however, i think there are some issues that, no matter how many people in a single state vote for them, just don't make sense. i don't think slaves should be kept in any state, i don't think people shouldn't be allowed to burn flags (or pictures of flags, or drawings of flags, or ford or chevy ads with flags), and i don't think consenting adults should be prosecuted for buttfucking in their bedrooms. i think most people on LS agree with these ideas, at least. i think that some rights are self evident, and i don't believe that a local government can infringe on those rights. it's quite the middle class idea that you can "just move"; there are people that have to live in shitty places and don't have cars. should those people, by virtue of being dirt poor, be subject to having their freedom of speech and expression curtailed by their local government?
additionally i believe that the constitution opens with a line about "union" for a purpose. that is to say, secession seems to oppose the notion of founding a nation of states. why bother with a federal government if it has no power to keep the union together?
Posting the Ten Commandments is not the same as telling someone that they have to believe that God dictated them to Moses. In fact, Congress has been expressly told not to interfere with the free exercise of religion.
and no one tries to take the ten commandments (of which there are several versions in the bible) off of that shithead's lawn. no one keeps him from painting them on the side of his house. dickhead is posting them in a place he does not own. can you do this at your job? why not?
government buildings are for "the people," not "the person."
Is not voluntary prayer in schools free exercise thereof? Would you fault someone for arguing that?
i don't see a problem with it. i went to a catholic high school and we had prayer every morning, even though i am a godless heathen.
kids who want to pray quietly on their own in a public school ought to be provided a small amount of time and some privacy every day, if they so desire.
Buttfucking is hardly free-speech.
some might call it "freedom of expression." i just call it "sunday night."
If we are going to give unlimited jurisdiction to the federal government, then we ought to just eliminate state governments altogether and write a new constitution.
if we are going to give unlimited jurisdiction to the state governments, then we ought to just eliminate federal government altogether and write a new constitution.
oh. shit. you like that idea.
perhaps what we ought to be looking for is a balance. you know, with some checks against power. when we think of a system, we can give it a short, catchy name.
They asked him for a quote probably. Have you seen the movie? His appearance doesn't necessarily mean an endorsement.
i don't know. i don't mean to say that ron paul said something whacky in this particular instance, only that ron paul has very serious issues in who he associates with.
if huckabee was in docs produced by scientologists who don't believe in mental illness, published racist newsletters under his name (and made campaign money from them), had insane letters sent out on his letterhead with his signature at the bottom...it would be on the front page of linkswarm and we'd all laugh at his crazy ass.
EVEN IF ron paul isn't responsible for that shit and didn't know about it, well...
doesn't it all seem very problematic for a presidential candidate? i can't see how anyone can disagree with this, despite all the protestation from people on the internet who have invested so much in this dude.
That's just gay.
i'd probably be right with you if it weren't for the fact that married people have a whole lot of benefits that gay couples can't have. if married couples lost all benefits, or if gay couples could have the same benefits, then no, i don't give a shit if the federal government has anything to do with marriage. i just doubt that it will happen anytime soon, and like i said, some authority needs to enforce human rights that are denied to people.
gold mines
point being, he doesn't want a currency that is backed with a commodity. he wants GOLD. he doesn't want silver, or any other precious metal, or oil fer fucksakes.
he is very specific about this, he preaches it from his political pulpit, and he profits off of it.
i thought about it, and yeah, i did think, "well sure, he believes our currency is bullshit, so he invests in gold mines." while i can't say as some unassailable fact that he is doing this shit to profit, he did release a newsletter called "The Ron Paul Investment Report" in between his years as a congressman. right or wrong, if this were stocks, he'd be in prison.
Except historically accurate. Ron Paul doesn't believe that the Civil War was fought over slavery. Slavery is a separate issue that could've been resolved without violating the constitution.
you don't have to believe the one guy i quote or anything, but i think he makes a solid case. click his name if you want his credentials.
I didn't see you name Lew Rockwell... did you? Sorry.
i thought i had, but maybe not. in any case, this dondero character is 45, according to his blog profile. making him 15 years old in 1978, the first year of the crazy ron paul newsletter. dondero claims to have joined ron paul's campaign in 1988, and he was fired at some point (and i can't find when), which leaves time for ron paul or someone else to have written the newsletters. i'll admit that some of the most blatant stuff was from the mid 90s, which means that this dondero person could have done it. still leaves a wide open time frame for ron paul to have found out about it, fired him, and promptly allowed someone else to do the same shit. i've seen lew rockwell's name mentioned on 5 or 6 blogs as the top suspect, and i've seen on most of those same blogs that he is apparently still paid by ron paul (which of course may not be true, as these are blogs). BUT HE HAD NO IDEA every. single. time.
it also doesn't explain the 1996 quotes where he attributes the minor uproar to "statistics" and the interpretations of uppity negroes, nor does it explain things like where he says that TSA screeners look like dirty foreigners.
the man has a weird chip on his shoulder, that's for sure.
I don't know how you figured 42nd, there were 16 countries with higher life expectancies on your list. Maybe it was the placement on the list, but that's alphabetical...and we're 49th.
This is a funny statistic. We're also about in the middle of CIA Advanced Economies, and the same can be said for the Internationa Monetary Fund's Advanced Ecconomy list, and we're number one on the list of North American Industralized Nations with 50 states. YAY.
nocal:
LOki:
What about treatment other than "emergency" treatment?
often people without access to preventative treatment have to wait until it becomes necessary for emergency treatment.
Thoughtless douche-bags, with an over developed sense of entitlement often show up in emergency rooms for every little thing (because every inconvenience is an emergency), or they stupidly wait for their condition to progress until it becomes necessary for emergency treatment.
nocal:
LOki: What about transplants, or joint replacement? There's alot of heathcare that falls outside of "emergency" treatment that victims of socialized heathcare are waiting for permission to get.
are you really arguing that elective surgeries take a precedence over emergency treatment? if we have to choose, i would really prefer that elective surgeries take a back seat. because according to this, moderate wait times for elective procedures are of negligible risk to health. also on that page is the fact that canadians wait a long fuckin time for pretty much everything...but the U.S. is the same for regular doctor visits, anyway.
ERs are not the totality of healthcare, and being Emergency treatment, they are by definition a bad measure for the effeciveness and quality of healthcare. Besides, the unarguable fact that Americans are, by and large, thoughtless, self important douche-bags has a skewing effect on ER statisics. Just because a treatemnt is not an emergency treatment, it does not make that treatment "elective" as you say; it makes that treatment no less vital or neccessary. Actual, real health care, and not emergencies is what we should really be looking at.
nocal:
LOki:
And this does not suggest slavery to you?
LOki:
Don't take this the wrong way, but there were some plantation owners in 19th Century U.S. that couldn't figure out what all fuss about the blacks was about--maybe more importantly, some of the blacks couldn't figure it out either.
no wonder you think ron paul isn't a racist, you racist.
Not a single racist word. No wonder you think Ron Paul is a racist. Retard.
nocal:
how can you compare people who have the ability to move, get a different job, not become a doctor in the first place, or even go into teaching (which is very lucrative) to actual slavery?
Because it's clear to me that the existence of slavery is not defined by the length, or comfort of the chains that the slave is wearing; or by the kindness, cruelty, or disregard of the slave master; it is defined by the existence of the chains (metaphorical, if not literal), and slaves, and masters. To the exact degree you think that it's just fine to forcibly take the life product of another and dispose of it as you wish, you think slavery is just fine.
nocal:
LOki:
I guarantee, the really talented would take their talents where it pays better.
where would they go?
Where it pays better.
nocal:
LOki:
You say it's poor. But I'm not running off to another country fot the "superior healthcare, but foreigners certainly come here for ours. In fact, my experience with the Russian, Italian, Belgian, Norwegian, Greek, and Spanish Med students (to mention only the Europeans) suggests that we export the best healthcare. I don't see a lot of US MDs with foreign credentials, and my understanding is those who have foreign credentials aren't always veiwed with the highest regard.
i didn't say it's poor,[nocal: "if this were true, then again, why is our healthcare so poor compared to other countries?"] i provided statistical evidence, which you refute with anecdotal evidence. beyond that, i never said that america didn't have great schools. additionally, i know a ton of foreigners who come to america to be salespeople. does that mean that if i went to another country, they would have inferior salespeople? people come to america for a lot of reasons.
You actually did say our healthcare is poor compared to other countries. And the point I was making was that it looks like we export excellent healthcare.
nocal:
LOki:
There are fewer veterinarians than there are doctors, and they get paid less because people place geater value on the lives of their children than their children's hamster.
point being: they get paid less, and yet they still exist for some reason. didn't you argue that throwing more money into education did not improve it (which is, in fact, true)?
Gas station attendants get paid less too; what's your point?
nocal:
LOki:
No you didn't. You provided a hearsay assertion attibuted to a socialist organization with a socialized heathcare aggenda.
i have suggested that we adopt a cheaper and more effective system that is already in place in a number of countries. i provided data that shows that it is cheaper and more effective. your arguments have no data or support in the real world beyond anecdotes.
I am suggesting socialized healthcare is both financially and morally bankrupt.
for one thing, you know damn well that if i provided a link that said "NAACP President: Ron Paul Is Definitely A Racist," you wouldn't give a fuck. and neither does ron paul!! re: the newsletters: "If someone challenges your character and takes the interpretation of the NAACP as proof of a man's character, what kind of a world do you live in?" Dr. Paul asked.
But you should give a fuck.
"Asked directly if Ron Paul was a racist, Linder responded "No I don't," adding that he had heard Ron Paul speak out about police repression of black communities and mandatory minimum sentences on many occasions."
The president of an organization dedicated to the vigilant exposure of racism against black folks has asserted that he does not think Ron Paul is a racist, and your laughable response is "Well, racists don't care."
Way to go.
nocal:
i also think i'm understanding ron paul's strain of racism.
ah yes he is that type of racist, the one who couches his racism in "statistics."
I don't think you even know what racism is.
nocal:
this also doesn't explain why a newsletter in his name, written in the first person, has a mention of his wife and kids. another instance the author mentions being a surgeon in the air force. another passage mentions running for president in 1988 on the libertarian ticket. it's all right here, in black and white. seems like someone (apparently lew rockwell, according to blogs) was seriously misrepresenting his views in a really disgusting way and he ought to have taken some kind of action. or he could fire lew rockwell, who is one of his advisers and on his payroll...
I guess you don't know what ghostwriting is either.
But you seem to know absolutely everything about the staff of these news letters; you seem to know that nobody has ever been fired or asked to resign, for instance.
nocal:
BUT WAIT. one of his former staff members from that time period confirms that ron paul spoke a bit like that
You source:
"Given Paul's feelings at the time, and knowing Ron Paul personally as I do, I would give him the benefit of the doubt, and suggest that he was referring to violent criminals in general, not just to Blacks."
But you're quick to wash anyone who mentions blaks with the "racist" label, aren't you?
Yeah. There's no defending this. "Replete" may be a bit ambiguous, but the 3 or 4 times a Creator or God is mentioned in the DOI and the USC does not quite cut it. But I can see his point about religion being driven from public life. Too much Governmental time, money and action is spent involving itself in efforts to make sure someone doesn't pray in school, or put up a sign that says "Merry Christmas; that shit is bananas.
"The best guarantor of true liberty is decentralized political institutions, while the greatest threat to liberty is concentrated power. This is why the Constitution carefully limits the power of the federal government over the states. Allowing federal judges unfettered discretion to strike down state laws, or force a state to conform to the laws of another state, leads to centralization and loss of liberty."
If heterosexuality is not a life stlye, then homosexuality is not a life style. Suggesting homosexuality is not an acceptable lifestyle is no different than suggesting heterosexuality is not an acceptable lifestyle. Suggesting that homosexuality is a life style, suggests hetro sexuality is a life style; it suggests human sexuality is just a life style thing.
unedited version--Actually does not accept evolutionary theory as the explanation for the existence of life. More prescisely states that neither side has complete evidence.
well but why not a silver standard? there is not very much gold in the world, and--
Ron Paul's 2005 personal financial disclosures say:
Agnico Eagle Mines $15,001 to $50,000
Apollo Gold Corp $1 to $1,000
Barrick Gold $100,001 to $250,000
El Dorado Gold $15,001 to $50,000
Glamis Gold $50,001 to $100,000
Goldcorp Inc $100,001 to $250,000
Golden Cycle Gold Corp $15,001 to $50,000
Golden Star Res Ltd $1,001 to $15,000
Great Basin Gold $1,001 to $15,000
IAM Gold Corp $50,001 to $100,000
Kinross $15,001 to $50,000
Mines DOR VA Inc $15,001 to $50,000
River Gold Mines $1,001 to $15,000
nocal:
as i've linked to before:
--believes that states can outlaw buttfucking in private
Actually asserts that this is a decision that the Fed should stay out of.
nocal:
--believes that the fed shouldn't intervene if states want to erect religious iconography in state government buildings
There is that pesky Constitution to think of.
nocal:
--sends out obvious (and not so obvious) racist newsletters, letters, and mailers
Jamie Kirchick: “He speaks in code; he’s a transmitter. He’ll say certain things that at first might not appear to be overtly racist, but to certain audiences, they know what he’s talking about. […] People in the know, and people who are in the neo-confederate communities, know exactly what he’s talking about.”
Extra obvious to racists.
nocal:
--when the british ended slavery, slave owners were paid by the government, so ron paul actually believes that if the government had just paid for the slaves the civil war never would have happened
The civil war actually was NOT about slavery. You do know that, right?
nocal:
--theoretically he didn't write or know anything about his decades-long run of newsletters (i'll play this game for a moment) but he still employs the racist who wrote all that shit
Oh? You're claiming to know which writer it was then, because you know that nobody has been fired or asked to resign?
nocal:
--when confronted years ago about his racism, he alludes to the fact that the NAACP is full of uppity negroes and cites "statistics" as the reason he is not racist
You are confused. Data presented that compares races is not neccessarily racist. Expectations based on that data are not neccessarily racist either. Demanding that someone be race-ignorant is not demanding someone to abandon racism, it's demanding that they abandon understanding.
Also, a sentiment like this might have some bearing:
Ayn Rand: "The "liberals" are guilty of the same contradiction, but in a different form. They advocate the sacrifice of all individual rights to unlimited majority rule -- yet posture as defenders of the rights of minorities. But the smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.
This accumulation of contradictions, of short-sighted pragmatism, of cynical contempt for principles, of outrageous irrationality, has now reached its climax in the new demands of the Negro leaders.
Instead of fighting against racial discrimination, they are demanding that racial discrimination be legalized and enforced. Instead of fighting against racism, they are demanding the establishment of racial quotas. Instead of fighting for "color-blindness" in social and economic issues, they are proclaiming that "color-blindness" is evil and that "color" should be made a primary consideration. Instead of fighting for equal rights, they are demanding special race privileges."
nocal:
in 1996 he said this about the newsletters:
Houston Chronicle dated May 23, 1996:
Paul, a Republican obstetrician from Surfside, said Wednesday he opposes racism and that his written commentaries about blacks came in the context of “current events and statistical reports of the time.”
[…]
Paul also wrote that although “we are constantly told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, it is hardly irrational.
Black men commit murders, rapes, robberies, muggings and burglaries all out of proportion to their numbers.”
A campaign spokesman for Paul said statements about the fear of black males mirror pronouncements by black leaders such as the Rev. Jesse Jackson, who has decried the spread of urban crime.
Paul continues to write the newsletter for an undisclosed number of subscribers, the spokesman said.
Or this from the Dallas Morning News dated May 22, 1996:
Dr. Ron Paul, a Republican congressional candidate from Texas, wrote in his political newsletter in 1992 that 95 percent of the black men in Washington, D.C., are “semi-criminal or entirely criminal.”
He also wrote that black teenagers can be “unbelievably fleet of foot.” […]
Dr. Paul, who is running in Texas’ 14th Congressional District, defended his writings in an interview Tuesday. He said they were being taken out of context.
“It’s typical political demagoguery,” he said. “If people are interested in my character … come and talk to my neighbors.” […]
According to a Dallas Morning News review of documents circulating among Texas Democrats, Dr. Paul wrote in a 1992 issue of the Ron Paul Political Report: “If you have ever been robbed by a black teenaged male, you know how unbelievably fleet of foot they can be.”
Dr. Paul, who served in Congress in the late 1970s and early 1980s, said Tuesday that he has produced the newsletter since 1985 and distributes it to an estimated 7,000 to 8,000 subscribers. A phone call to the newsletter’s toll-free number was answered by his campaign staff. […]
Dr. Paul denied suggestions that he was a racist and said he was not evoking stereotypes when he wrote the columns. He said they should be read and quoted in their entirety to avoid misrepresentation. […]
“If someone challenges your character and takes the interpretation of the NAACP as proof of a man’s character, what kind of a world do you live in?” Dr. Paul asked.
In the interview, he did not deny he made the statement about the swiftness of black men.
“If you try to catch someone that has stolen a purse from you, there is no chance to catch them,” Dr. Paul said.
so he's fucking lying, you shits. he knew about it then, and he's trying to claim that he didn't know anything about them. how many more excuses can you invent?
I think he actually has been saying he's been dealing with them for some time--at least that's what I've been telling you, and you have just been ignoring; that he didn't know about them at the time they were published. You are like the king of misrepresentation.
I don't know how you figured 42nd, there were 16 countries with higher life expectancies on your list. Maybe it was the placement on the list, but that's alphabetical...and we're 49th.
This is a funny statistic. We're also about in the middle of CIA Advanced Economies, and the same can be said for the Internationa Monetary Fund's Advanced Ecconomy list, and we're number one on the list of North American Industralized Nations with 50 states. YAY.
nocal:
LOki:
What about treatment other than "emergency" treatment?
often people without access to preventative treatment have to wait until it becomes necessary for emergency treatment.
Thoughtless douche-bags, with an over developed sense of entitlement often show up in emergency rooms for every little thing (because every inconvenience is an emergency), or they stupidly wait for their condition to progress until it becomes necessary for emergency treatment.
nocal:
LOki: What about transplants, or joint replacement? There's alot of heathcare that falls outside of "emergency" treatment that victims of socialized heathcare are waiting for permission to get.
are you really arguing that elective surgeries take a precedence over emergency treatment? if we have to choose, i would really prefer that elective surgeries take a back seat. because according to this, moderate wait times for elective procedures are of negligible risk to health. also on that page is the fact that canadians wait a long fuckin time for pretty much everything...but the U.S. is the same for regular doctor visits, anyway.
ERs are not the totality of healthcare, and being Emergency treatment, they are by definition a bad measure for the effeciveness and quality of healthcare. Besides, the unarguable fact that Americans are, by and large, thoughtless, self important douche-bags has a skewing effect on ER statisics. Just because a treatemnt is not an emergency treatment, it does not make that treatment "elective" as you say; it makes that treatment no less vital or neccessary. Actual, real health care, and not emergencies is what we should really be looking at.
nocal:
LOki:
And this does not suggest slavery to you?
LOki:
Don't take this the wrong way, but there were some plantation owners in 19th Century U.S. that couldn't figure out what all fuss about the blacks was about--maybe more importantly, some of the blacks couldn't figure it out either.
no wonder you think ron paul isn't a racist, you racist.
Not a single racist word. No wonder you think Ron Paul is a racist. Retard.
nocal:
how can you compare people who have the ability to move, get a different job, not become a doctor in the first place, or even go into teaching (which is very lucrative) to actual slavery?
Because it's clear to me that the existence of slavery is not defined by the length, or comfort of the chains that the slave is wearing; or by the kindness, cruelty, or disregard of the slave master; it is defined by the existence of the chains (metaphorical, if not literal), and slaves, and masters. To the exact degree you think that it's just fine to forcibly take the life product of another and dispose of it as you wish, you think slavery is just fine.
nocal:
LOki:
I guarantee, the really talented would take their talents where it pays better.
where would they go?
Where it pays better.
nocal:
LOki:
You say it's poor. But I'm not running off to another country fot the "superior healthcare, but foreigners certainly come here for ours. In fact, my experience with the Russian, Italian, Belgian, Norwegian, Greek, and Spanish Med students (to mention only the Europeans) suggests that we export the best healthcare. I don't see a lot of US MDs with foreign credentials, and my understanding is those who have foreign credentials aren't always veiwed with the highest regard.
i didn't say it's poor,[nocal: "if this were true, then again, why is our healthcare so poor compared to other countries?"] i provided statistical evidence, which you refute with anecdotal evidence. beyond that, i never said that america didn't have great schools. additionally, i know a ton of foreigners who come to america to be salespeople. does that mean that if i went to another country, they would have inferior salespeople? people come to america for a lot of reasons.
You actually did say our healthcare is poor compared to other countries. And the point I was making was that it looks like we export excellent healthcare.
nocal:
LOki:
There are fewer veterinarians than there are doctors, and they get paid less because people place geater value on the lives of their children than their children's hamster.
point being: they get paid less, and yet they still exist for some reason. didn't you argue that throwing more money into education did not improve it (which is, in fact, true)?
Gas station attendants get paid less too; what's your point?
nocal:
LOki:
No you didn't. You provided a hearsay assertion attibuted to a socialist organization with a socialized heathcare aggenda.
i have suggested that we adopt a cheaper and more effective system that is already in place in a number of countries. i provided data that shows that it is cheaper and more effective. your arguments have no data or support in the real world beyond anecdotes.
I am suggesting socialized healthcare is both financially and morally bankrupt.
for one thing, you know damn well that if i provided a link that said "NAACP President: Ron Paul Is Definitely A Racist," you wouldn't give a fuck. and neither does ron paul!! re: the newsletters: "If someone challenges your character and takes the interpretation of the NAACP as proof of a man's character, what kind of a world do you live in?" Dr. Paul asked.
But you should give a fuck.
"Asked directly if Ron Paul was a racist, Linder responded "No I don't," adding that he had heard Ron Paul speak out about police repression of black communities and mandatory minimum sentences on many occasions."
The president of an organization dedicated to the vigilant exposure of racism against black folks has asserted that he does not think Ron Paul is a racist, and your laughable response is "Well, racists don't care."
Way to go.
nocal:
i also think i'm understanding ron paul's strain of racism.
ah yes he is that type of racist, the one who couches his racism in "statistics."
I don't think you even know what racism is.
nocal:
this also doesn't explain why a newsletter in his name, written in the first person, has a mention of his wife and kids. another instance the author mentions being a surgeon in the air force. another passage mentions running for president in 1988 on the libertarian ticket. it's all right here, in black and white. seems like someone (apparently lew rockwell, according to blogs) was seriously misrepresenting his views in a really disgusting way and he ought to have taken some kind of action. or he could fire lew rockwell, who is one of his advisers and on his payroll...
I guess you don't know what ghostwriting is either.
But you seem to know absolutely everything about the staff of these news letters; you seem to know that nobody has ever been fired or asked to resign, for instance.
nocal:
BUT WAIT. one of his former staff members from that time period confirms that ron paul spoke a bit like that
You source:
"Given Paul's feelings at the time, and knowing Ron Paul personally as I do, I would give him the benefit of the doubt, and suggest that he was referring to violent criminals in general, not just to Blacks."
But you're quick to wash anyone who mentions blaks with the "racist" label, aren't you?
Yeah. There's no defending this. "Replete" may be a bit ambiguous, but the 3 or 4 times a Creator or God is mentioned in the DOI and the USC does not quite cut it. But I can see his point about religion being driven from public life. Too much Governmental time, money and action is spent involving itself in efforts to make sure someone doesn't pray in school, or put up a sign that says "Merry Christmas; that shit is bananas.
"The best guarantor of true liberty is decentralized political institutions, while the greatest threat to liberty is concentrated power. This is why the Constitution carefully limits the power of the federal government over the states. Allowing federal judges unfettered discretion to strike down state laws, or force a state to conform to the laws of another state, leads to centralization and loss of liberty."
If heterosexuality is not a life stlye, then homosexuality is not a life style. Suggesting homosexuality is not an acceptable lifestyle is no different than suggesting heterosexuality is not an acceptable lifestyle. Suggesting that homosexuality is a life style, suggests hetro sexuality is a life style; it suggests human sexuality is just a life style thing.
unedited version--Actually does not accept evolutionary theory as the explanation for the existence of life. More prescisely states that neither side has complete evidence.
well but why not a silver standard? there is not very much gold in the world, and--
Ron Paul's 2005 personal financial disclosures say:
Agnico Eagle Mines $15,001 to $50,000
Apollo Gold Corp $1 to $1,000
Barrick Gold $100,001 to $250,000
El Dorado Gold $15,001 to $50,000
Glamis Gold $50,001 to $100,000
Goldcorp Inc $100,001 to $250,000
Golden Cycle Gold Corp $15,001 to $50,000
Golden Star Res Ltd $1,001 to $15,000
Great Basin Gold $1,001 to $15,000
IAM Gold Corp $50,001 to $100,000
Kinross $15,001 to $50,000
Mines DOR VA Inc $15,001 to $50,000
River Gold Mines $1,001 to $15,000
nocal:
as i've linked to before:
--believes that states can outlaw buttfucking in private
Actually asserts that this is a decision that the Fed should stay out of.
nocal:
--believes that the fed shouldn't intervene if states want to erect religious iconography in state government buildings
There is that pesky Constitution to think of.
nocal:
--sends out obvious (and not so obvious) racist newsletters, letters, and mailers
Jamie Kirchick: “He speaks in code; he’s a transmitter. He’ll say certain things that at first might not appear to be overtly racist, but to certain audiences, they know what he’s talking about. […] People in the know, and people who are in the neo-confederate communities, know exactly what he’s talking about.”
Extra obvious to racists.
nocal:
--when the british ended slavery, slave owners were paid by the government, so ron paul actually believes that if the government had just paid for the slaves the civil war never would have happened
The civil war actually was NOT about slavery. You do know that, right?
nocal:
--theoretically he didn't write or know anything about his decades-long run of newsletters (i'll play this game for a moment) but he still employs the racist who wrote all that shit
Oh? You're claiming to know which writer it was then, because you know that nobody has been fired or asked to resign?
nocal:
--when confronted years ago about his racism, he alludes to the fact that the NAACP is full of uppity negroes and cites "statistics" as the reason he is not racist
You are confused. Data presented that compares races is not neccessarily racist. Expectations based on that data are not neccessarily racist either. Demanding that someone be race-ignorant is not demanding someone to abandon racism, it's demanding that they abandon understanding.
Also, a sentiment like this might have some bearing:
Ayn Rand: "The "liberals" are guilty of the same contradiction, but in a different form. They advocate the sacrifice of all individual rights to unlimited majority rule -- yet posture as defenders of the rights of minorities. But the smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.
This accumulation of contradictions, of short-sighted pragmatism, of cynical contempt for principles, of outrageous irrationality, has now reached its climax in the new demands of the Negro leaders.
Instead of fighting against racial discrimination, they are demanding that racial discrimination be legalized and enforced. Instead of fighting against racism, they are demanding the establishment of racial quotas. Instead of fighting for "color-blindness" in social and economic issues, they are proclaiming that "color-blindness" is evil and that "color" should be made a primary consideration. Instead of fighting for equal rights, they are demanding special race privileges."
nocal:
in 1996 he said this about the newsletters:
Houston Chronicle dated May 23, 1996:
Paul, a Republican obstetrician from Surfside, said Wednesday he opposes racism and that his written commentaries about blacks came in the context of “current events and statistical reports of the time.”
[…]
Paul also wrote that although “we are constantly told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, it is hardly irrational.
Black men commit murders, rapes, robberies, muggings and burglaries all out of proportion to their numbers.”
A campaign spokesman for Paul said statements about the fear of black males mirror pronouncements by black leaders such as the Rev. Jesse Jackson, who has decried the spread of urban crime.
Paul continues to write the newsletter for an undisclosed number of subscribers, the spokesman said.
Or this from the Dallas Morning News dated May 22, 1996:
Dr. Ron Paul, a Republican congressional candidate from Texas, wrote in his political newsletter in 1992 that 95 percent of the black men in Washington, D.C., are “semi-criminal or entirely criminal.”
He also wrote that black teenagers can be “unbelievably fleet of foot.” […]
Dr. Paul, who is running in Texas’ 14th Congressional District, defended his writings in an interview Tuesday. He said they were being taken out of context.
“It’s typical political demagoguery,” he said. “If people are interested in my character … come and talk to my neighbors.” […]
According to a Dallas Morning News review of documents circulating among Texas Democrats, Dr. Paul wrote in a 1992 issue of the Ron Paul Political Report: “If you have ever been robbed by a black teenaged male, you know how unbelievably fleet of foot they can be.”
Dr. Paul, who served in Congress in the late 1970s and early 1980s, said Tuesday that he has produced the newsletter since 1985 and distributes it to an estimated 7,000 to 8,000 subscribers. A phone call to the newsletter’s toll-free number was answered by his campaign staff. […]
Dr. Paul denied suggestions that he was a racist and said he was not evoking stereotypes when he wrote the columns. He said they should be read and quoted in their entirety to avoid misrepresentation. […]
“If someone challenges your character and takes the interpretation of the NAACP as proof of a man’s character, what kind of a world do you live in?” Dr. Paul asked.
In the interview, he did not deny he made the statement about the swiftness of black men.
“If you try to catch someone that has stolen a purse from you, there is no chance to catch them,” Dr. Paul said.
so he's fucking lying, you shits. he knew about it then, and he's trying to claim that he didn't know anything about them. how many more excuses can you invent?
I think he actually has been saying he's been dealing with them for some time--at least that's what I've been telling you, and you have just been ignoring; that he didn't know about them at the time they were published. You are like the king of misrepresentation.
Sorry, just wanted to shit up the forums more.
____________________ I'm an INTJ. This explains why I'm alternating between silence and judging you.
I liked the limo vid. That's pretty much how I've rat-holed this whole RP drive in my wotak melon. I like a lot of the crap he says but it's political bullshit on par with GWB's bullshit when you weigh it out. Just a different angle.
That said, all the others are full of shit as well, so there you go.
____________________ "Still have to stop car." --Vasudeva
Okay - that's all I need to see. I don't like being lied to; and that's some pretty sleazy stuff.
Sorry guys, but I'm off the bus.
Seriously, that looks like a ton of he-said she-said with parsing and re-parsing.
I don't see a smoking gun.
I'm looking at this (among others) from that link, where he says he did write the newsletters (he takes responsibility for them and attempts to explain them in their proper context). And now in this campign he totally denies he even knew who wrote them. Smells o fish.
May 22, 1996 Dallas Morning News:
...
Dr. Paul denied suggestions that he was a racist and said he was not evoking stereotypes when he wrote the columns. He said they should be read and quoted in their entirety to avoid misrepresentation. [...]
"If someone challenges your character and takes the interpretation of the NAACP as proof of a man's character, what kind of a world do you live in?" Dr. Paul asked.
In the interview, he did not deny he made the statement about the swiftness of black men.
"If you try to catch someone that has stolen a purse from you, there is no chance to catch them," Dr. Paul said.
...
So who did write the newsletters? Well, the article has a number of sources claiming it’s an open secret that Lew Rockwell, of the eponymous LewRockwell.com, was the main ghost writer. And most of you know how closely attached those two have been and are currently. If not, check out Ron Paul’s endorsement page.
What can he say at this point? I mean, we’re talking about income earned from out and out bigotry? Of course this shouldn’t take away from Paul’s “current” message, but it completely decimates Paul’s credibility. He simply can’t claim he didn’t know what was being written in newsletters from a company that employed and paid him, his wife and his daughter. No way.
____________________ To the dog who has money, men say "My Lord Dog".
nocal:
BUT WAIT. one of his former staff members from that time period confirms that ron paul spoke a bit like that
Quoting Eric Dondero to talk about Ron Paul is like quoting eh... Newt Gingrich to talk about Bill Clinton. You can't reasonably say that he isn't biased.
Wouldn't you be pissed at Ron Paul if he fired you?
Not knocking your source much, but I'll point out that Singapore is #1. These places my have different standards of what infant motratlity means.
oh ok!
the reason their rate is skewed is that they have a much smaller nation. however, i've also read that next to japan, singapore has some of the most excellent healthcare in the world.
perhaps you have a more reputable source where america ranks #1?
I don't know how you figured 42nd, there were 16 countries with higher life expectancies on your list. Maybe it was the placement on the list, but that's alphabetical...and we're 49th.
i may have linked the wrong data or something. it's reported by every major news organization, though.
This is a funny statistic. We're also about in the middle of CIA Advanced Economies, and the same can be said for the Internationa Monetary Fund's Advanced Ecconomy list, and we're number one on the list of North American Industralized Nations with 50 states. YAY.
it's a funny statistic to you because i guess you think it's arbitrary. but not coincidentally america does very poorly in terms of inoculations compared to other countries.
Thoughtless douche-bags, with an over developed sense of entitlement often show up in emergency rooms for every little thing (because every inconvenience is an emergency),
thoughtless douchebags do a lot of things, but thoughtless douchebags with a history of hypochondria are a slight bit more rare than the people with the actual emergencies
or they stupidly wait for their condition to progress until it becomes necessary for emergency treatment.
average wait time to see a doctor in america for a non emergency this year is 6 days -- and increasing. but some people whose issues could be cleared up with $20 of antibiotics don't see a doctor because they don't have coverage, or because they can't afford or don't want to pay their $100 co-pay. $20 problem becomes $20,000 problem, and a person who isn't paying a $100 co-pay isn't paying that, so we pay more at the hospital because of it.
Rs are not the totality of healthcare, and being Emergency treatment, they are by definition a bad measure for the effeciveness and quality of healthcare.
not the totality, but the most important part.
Actual, real health care, and not emergencies is what we should really be looking at.
ok, let's.
Not a single racist word. No wonder you think Ron Paul is a racist. Retard.
yeah the idea that canadian doctors are equivalent to african slaves has no whiff of racism whatsoever. i can't imagine anyone being offended at trivializing actual slavery.
next you will compare me writing about ron paul to the persecution of the jews, and you will be absolutely clueless when i presume that you're trivializing that too.
Where it pays better.
where, exactly, does it pay better?
And the point I was making was that it looks like we export excellent healthcare.
we have good schools in america.
Gas station attendants get paid less too; what's your point?
that people do a similar job, despite it paying about half as much. some people are not only motivated by money. people trying to save lives should perhaps not be motivated primarily by money.
for instance: our infant mortality rate and life expectancy should both go up if we change our system. what doctor could argue for his or her salary over saving lives? the worst kind, i would assume.
beyond that, the government could subsidize med school, and malpractice insurance would plummet in cost. so would doctors really be losing a significant amount of money? it doesn't seem to be the case.
The president of an organization dedicated to the vigilant exposure of racism against black folks has asserted that he does not think Ron Paul is a racist, and your laughable response is "Well, racists don't care."
Way to go.
first of all, it's the AUSTIN president. so not the president of the whole organization.
and my laughable response was, if you read clearly, not that racists don't care (although ironically yes, that was my response).
my response is that in 1996, RON PAUL SAID:
"If someone challenges your character and takes the interpretation of the NAACP as proof of a man's character, what kind of a world do you live in?" Dr. Paul asked.
so RON PAUL said he doesn't care what the NAACP thinks of him when they call him a racist in 1996. i just think it's funny you would parade that article around when ron paul himself couldn't give a fuck.
I don't think you even know what racism is.
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
well you know, it sounds to me like ron paul believes in inherent differences among the races.
I guess you don't know what ghostwriting is either.
But you seem to know absolutely everything about the staff of these news letters; you seem to know that nobody has ever been fired or asked to resign, for instance.
i know more than you, apparently, and all it took was 30 seconds of googling. like i was saying with uart, someone was fired. eric dondero may have written some of the worst stuff in the mid 1990s. yet he joined ron paul's campaign in 1988, meaning that 10 years of crazy was either ron paul or someone else. let's say it was someone else and ron paul fired him, then hired eric dondero, who did the same shit over again.
you don't see this as a problem? the man wants to run for president, but at the very least, is oblivious to things that go on around him and the people he associates with?
i can believe it happened once, but not multiple times. the fucking guy went to Duke, fer chrissakes.
But you're quick to wash anyone who mentions blaks with the "racist" label, aren't you?
from the same article:
But still, it does suggest that Paul is not telling the entire truth when he tells Wolf Blitzer that he's unaware of what went into the Newsletter. It's highly unlikely that a ghostwriter would have made such a reference to "my small town of Lake Jackson" and even more unlikely that Paul would have let that particular passage go out under his name from somebody else.
the author of the piece is eric dondero, so it casts aspersions on what he says, but he also says that ron paul basically talked in a similar way. all these different people like to claim that ron paul doesn't write like that, but eric dondero has apparently heard it said.
Yeah. There's no defending this.
i admit, it was a bandwagon issue a few years back. but it is an obnoxious issue.
If heterosexuality is not a life stlye, then homosexuality is not a life style. Suggesting homosexuality is not an acceptable lifestyle is no different than suggesting heterosexuality is not an acceptable lifestyle. Suggesting that homosexuality is a life style, suggests hetro sexuality is a life style; it suggests human sexuality is just a life style thing.
give me a break. he never suggests that he doesn't want sexuality promoted as a lifestyle. he suggests HOMOsexuality for a reason.
unedited version--Actually does not accept evolutionary theory as the explanation for the existence of life. More prescisely states that neither side has complete evidence.
i don't think the video i posted was edited in a deceptive way. he clearly says in the video i posted that neither side has "proof." but he says, just before that, that he doesn't accept evolution. so he may not believe that either is "provable" (which is true), but he doesn't accept evolution.
Yeah, if you want real irony though, check this out:
boy, even when ron paul says shit out loud, you can't accept that he did. and you keep trotting out the same irrelevant argument.
The civil war actually was NOT about slavery. You do know that, right?
it's arguable that states can secede against the will of the federal government, but ron paul does mention that paying for slaves could have ended slavery.
Oh? You're claiming to know which writer it was then, because you know that nobody has been fired or asked to resign?
again, it is likely lew rockwell, who is supposedly still on his payroll, which would explain why he hasn't said publicly who the author is. seems like he would tell everyone it was dondero, since dondero was fired and ron paul calls him "disgruntled."
You are confused. Data presented that compares races is not neccessarily racist.
oh ok, i thought that the way in which ron paul used his "data" was particularly vitriolic, but since he just lists data points on a graph i guess i was wrong
Also, a sentiment like this might have some bearing:
Rand noted, "I do not believe that the government has the right to prohibit homosexual behavior. It is the privilege of any individual to use his sex life in whichever way he wants it."[53] (ron paul does not like this part)
Rand defended the right of businesses to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation, race, or any other criteria. Rand argued that no one's rights are violated by a private individual's or organization's refusal to deal with him, even if the reason is irrational. (ron paul likes this part)
I think he actually has been saying he's been dealing with them for some time--at least that's what I've been telling you, and you have just been ignoring; that he didn't know about them at the time they were published. You are like the king of misrepresentation.
i think that no matter the borderline things that ron paul says in public, no matter what has been written on his official letterhead and sent out by the thousands (repeatedly), no matter how many decades of vile shit he churns out for campaign donations, no matter how many newsletters he publishes with his name on them and written as though they represent his beliefs, you will make excuses for him.
when ron paul says this:
Paul, a Republican obstetrician from Surfside, said Wednesday he opposes racism and that his written commentaries about blacks came in the context of “current events and statistical reports of the time.”
he is not claiming a ghostwriter, nor is he disavowing what was written. he is defending what was there. in 1996. there were more newsletters after that. so he knew then, he defended it then, and more came after.
Quoting Eric Dondero to talk about Ron Paul is like quoting eh... Newt Gingrich to talk about Bill Clinton. You can't reasonably say that he isn't biased.
Wouldn't you be pissed at Ron Paul if he fired you?
yeah i admit that what he says has to be taken with a grain of salt. however, he doesn't just outright say that paul is a horrible racist and he kills jew babies to stay young. so on the one hand, he was fired and ron paul apparently dislikes him, and on the other hand, dondero isn't really vitriolic about ron paul.
that's the way it seems to me anyway. in any case, i'd be willing to toss that whole article out as unreliable if dondero is that bad.
plus i have been fired, and i still liked my boss. he's a nice guy.
