vasudeva
Bad Taste in your Mouth   SSHOLE |
Posts: 4540 Registered: 3/8/2002 Offline
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4/21/2007 at 02:13 |
This is the kind of story that is too obvious and in your face to remember to swarm, but I want to point out how much I enjoyed watching this dude get his ass handed to him. CSpan has streaming video of the thing under Related Video. It was really buffer-laggy live but should be better now.
If I've read this right at all, Gonzalez will resign soon (which will prove nothing and satisfy no one) then Myers and maybe then Rove will testify.
Wildcard rung up the ladder: 'missing' emails.
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ghostrider
liberal exit  SSHOLEPosts: 2502 Registered: 7/29/2004 Offline
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4/21/2007 at 02:28 |
Awesome, and thank you.
I bet a pastrami sammich and a pitcher of fine ale the 'missing' emails are found at the proper moment.
Well versed and well crafted this play shall unfold.
Genius.
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HOBO
* b0bo has quit IRC ('Exit')  SSHOLEPosts: 1144 Registered: 3/19/2002 Offline
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4/21/2007 at 11:57 |
Gonzalez was a controversial pick when he was appointed. His heavy handed tactics were a main point of contention. The fact that everything is crumbling around him should be of no surprise.
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mcgarpat
DARTH MENSES  Posts: 413 Registered: 7/10/2005 Offline
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4/21/2007 at 21:52 |
Clinton fired all of his attorneys coming in, why are these 8 so fuking important. And this IS politics. I fi were in charge, i would wnat these guys to have my back. Oh, and it is legal to do so.
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vasudeva
Bad Taste in your Mouth SSHOLEPosts: 4540 Registered: 3/8/2002 Offline
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4/21/2007 at 22:50 |
mcgarpat: Clinton fired all of his attorneys coming in
This "well, Clinton did it" meme is interesting. What does that prove? That the speaker thinks presidents should all be like Clinton? That the speaker thinks no presidents should be like Clinton at all? That all presidents should expect the same treatment in office as Clinton got? It's argument by soundbite.
Having said that, it's actually almost relevant in this particular case for once.
Except, no, it's not. Firing the last guy's attorney appointees isn't remotely uncommon, even within the same party.
why are these 8 so fuking important
Well, here's one possible reason: firing attorneys to block investigations and pursue political retribution could violate the duty of the President to faithfully execute the laws under the constitution and could be construed as "corrupting" a government proceeding in violation of federal law.
And this IS politics. I fi were in charge, i would wnat these guys to have my back. Oh, and it is legal to do so.
Me too. In fact, if I were in charge, I'd want blowjobs. And it'd be legal. But history shows I shouldn't lie about it when questioned, conspire to obstruct that questioning, or try to nullify the balance of power afforded by Congress in an affort to avoid that questioning.
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jwalker
Token Discordian  SSHOLEPosts: 958 Registered: 8/6/2005 Offline
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4/21/2007 at 22:51 |
mcgarpat: Clinton fired all of his attorneys coming in, why are these 8 so fuking important. And this IS politics. I fi were in charge, i would wnat these guys to have my back. Oh, and it is legal to do so.
It is legal to do so, insomuch as their employment falls under the Justice Department's responsibility. That does not mean they are allowed to attempt to influence the judicial courts by setting examples, nor does it does allow them to site bad performance when the real reason was because of the preference of the oval office (political or otherwise). Not any more than it is lawful to fire someone because of their race, even in at "at will" state.
And yes, of course it is political - anything and everything that happens in Washington is political - it's supposed to be political, by definition. The difference is whether the politics are aimed towards good governance or some other, less ethical reasons, as in this case.
On 2007-04-22 at 13:04:48, jwalker craps monkey baby
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Wrecker
Misanthrope  SSHOLEPosts: 463 Registered: 1/25/2006 Offline
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4/22/2007 at 00:01 |
This entire episode could have been over before it started if Gonzalez had come out and said "Yeah, we fired them because we didn't like the color of their socks (or any other retardo reason). Get over it. Next question."
But Vas hit it right on the head about the lying, obstructing and dodging. Even if what you are doing is 1000% legal, if you act guilty while doing it, somebody is going to trice you up.
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mcgarpat
DARTH MENSES Posts: 413 Registered: 7/10/2005 Offline
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4/23/2007 at 02:29 |
vasudeva: mcgarpat: Clinton fired all of his attorneys coming in
This "well, Clinton did it" meme is interesting. What does that prove? That the speaker thinks presidents should all be like Clinton? That the speaker thinks no presidents should be like Clinton at all? That all presidents should expect the same treatment in office as Clinton got? It's argument by soundbite.
Having said that, it's actually almost relevant in this particular case for once.
Except, no, it's not. Firing the last guy's attorney appointees isn't remotely uncommon, even within the same party.
why are these 8 so fuking important
Well, here's one possible reason: firing attorneys to block investigations and pursue political retribution could violate the duty of the President to faithfully execute the laws under the constitution and could be construed as "corrupting" a government proceeding in violation of federal law.
And this IS politics. I fi were in charge, i would wnat these guys to have my back. Oh, and it is legal to do so.
Me too. In fact, if I were in charge, I'd want blowjobs. And it'd be legal. But history shows I shouldn't lie about it when questioned, conspire to obstruct that questioning, or try to nullify the balance of power afforded by Congress in an affort to avoid that questioning.
This all boils down to morals, which none of these assholes have. Gonzales was not savvy enough or shrude enough to have that job. He was a meat puppet in this. His showing in front of the house was pathetic. I think the attourney generals office should be re worked.
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mcgarpat
DARTH MENSES Posts: 413 Registered: 7/10/2005 Offline
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5/1/2007 at 01:58 |
It was legal
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vasudeva
Bad Taste in your Mouth SSHOLEPosts: 4540 Registered: 3/8/2002 Offline
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5/1/2007 at 02:29 |
The March 2006 order...
Thank Christ for the AP! If Gonzalez had been able to find reference to this order during his weeks of intensive preparation, he could have cut that hearing down to like 4 minutes, then zoomed out for tacos for the rest of the day.
...gave Gonzales' then-Chief of Staff Kyle Sampson and later White House liaison Monica Goodling authority to hire and fire about 135 politically appointed Justice Department employees.
"This revelation shows that the Attorney General was prepared to engage in an extraordinary delegation of power to two young and unaccountable staffers who may have taken their marching orders directly from the White House," said Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y.
But the Justice Department pushed back, saying Gonzales never relinquished authority over hiring and firing decisions.
Er, what?
Q: We did.
A: You did!?
Q: No, no we didn't!
In addition, political appointees — "non-career employees" — are just that: they serve at the pleasure of the president and can be fired for any reason.
This soundbite is remarkable for two reasons, neither of which will reference its painfully didactic use here in an unbiased news article clearly meant to inform without influence (at last, thanks!).
1) It has made a lot of people sound, without a trace of shame, like they read Three Musketeer-type books for a hobby, with that archaic "at the pleasure of" business which is evidently the "hanging chad" of this era.
2) It's entirely too fuking tired.
If you believe that serving "at the pleasure of" the President is the final word on the matter, conjecture the President finding it pleasurable to appoint a homeless 6-year-old to a political post. Oh, what's that you say? Ludicrous? Hey. It's his pleasure. Right? Do you imagine that such an appointment would pass without challenge? If so, you're wrong. If not, then you agree that it's not without qualification.
"This order simply gives the chief of staff and the White House liaison the authority to execute certain decisions related to the hiring and termination of some non-career employees with, as the memo states, the approval of the attorney general," Justice Department spokesman Brian Roehrkasse said.
He sort of did, but not really. Just enough to get him out of whatever the Senate thinks he might have done. And then stopping perfectly right there cause apart from doing illegal crimes, Gonzales was totally in charge.
Democrats pounced
Gonzales repeatedly said
making a point to emphasize
Democrats have accused
AP writer meant to include handsome picture of Gonzales effortlessly catching football but was short of time having just made Alberto a nice ham sandwich.
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slippedhole> I am on to you and your evil intentions. I am the true protector of this website and am willing to do battle with you. |
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mcgarpat
DARTH MENSES Posts: 413 Registered: 7/10/2005 Offline
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5/1/2007 at 03:34 |
Gonzoles had such a spastic colon that he could not even think on his feet. Would you go up against an inquiry like this without doing any home work? Then mumble and rumble like a buffoon. I think not.
Didactic use, yes it was. Painfully inadequate. This dumb fuck was set up like place settings at thanksgiving. He had neither the brains or the wherewithal to hold this job let alone defend any position. Had he been more polished, this issue would have never made it to news. Politics aside, i don't even understand why the eight were singled out. Petty grudge match if you ask me.
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vasudeva
Bad Taste in your Mouth SSHOLEPosts: 4540 Registered: 3/8/2002 Offline
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5/1/2007 at 11:58 |
mcgarpat: Petty grudge match if you ask me.
Well, what else is new? I suspect there's a frisson of "oh no you di'n't" because of the interim appointment end-run thing. At least one of the Senators questioned him directly about it.
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slippedhole> I am on to you and your evil intentions. I am the true protector of this website and am willing to do battle with you. |
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jwalker
Token Discordian SSHOLEPosts: 958 Registered: 8/6/2005 Offline
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5/1/2007 at 23:47 |
mcgarpat: Politics aside, i don't even understand why the eight were singled out.
That's rather the point, isn't it? Evidently, politics weren't at all aside - more like right in the middle of it.
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mcgarpat
DARTH MENSES Posts: 413 Registered: 7/10/2005 Offline
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5/2/2007 at 01:59 |
I guess my point was some string pulling meat puppet player set this chump up. He was just too stupid to play. Now tenet, will make bookoo bucks on his book. Who is the fool?
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LOki
Refusenik  SSHOLEPosts: 485 Registered: 3/8/2002 Offline
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5/3/2007 at 09:46 |
I leik pie...but I <3 you gise!
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Wrecker
Misanthrope SSHOLEPosts: 463 Registered: 1/25/2006 Offline
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5/3/2007 at 10:39 |
jwalker: mcgarpat: Politics aside, i don't even understand why the eight were singled out.
That's rather the point, isn't it? Evidently, politics weren't at all aside - more like right in the middle of it.
What does the above fact, and this fact:
FACT: A dime has 118 ridges around the edge.
have in common?
ANS: They are both irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
It does not matter why these eight were fired. Not at all. Not even a little teensy tiny bit. Was politics involved? Abso-fucking-lutly!!! Does it have any bearing whatsoever on the case? No.
The only mistake that was made here was that the administration from the top down, was evasive, shifty, sneaky, and at some point someone (or even all of them) lied.
That is what gets these fuckers in trouble. It's not the actual act they commit, err perform. It's when they decide that it is better to lie about it, or set the perception that they are lying by being evasive.
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jwalker
Token Discordian SSHOLEPosts: 958 Registered: 8/6/2005 Offline
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5/3/2007 at 15:04 |
Wrecker: jwalker: mcgarpat: Politics aside, i don't even understand why the eight were singled out.
That's rather the point, isn't it? Evidently, politics weren't at all aside - more like right in the middle of it.
What does the above fact, and this fact:
FACT: A dime has 118 ridges around the edge.
have in common?
ANS: They are both irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
It does not matter why these eight were fired. Not at all. Not even a little teensy tiny bit. Was politics involved? Abso-fucking-lutly!!! Does it have any bearing whatsoever on the case? No.
The only mistake that was made here was that the administration from the top down, was evasive, shifty, sneaky, and at some point someone (or even all of them) lied.
That is what gets these fuckers in trouble. It's not the actual act they commit, err perform. It's when they decide that it is better to lie about it, or set the perception that they are lying by being evasive.
There's an outstanding question at the center of the firings, in that attempting to influence the judiciary for political motives may constitute obstruction of justice, which is a federal crime. Look it up.
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Wrecker
Misanthrope SSHOLEPosts: 463 Registered: 1/25/2006 Offline
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5/3/2007 at 23:37 |
And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.
'may constitute' and 'does constitute' do not mean the same thing, regardless of how much you wish it.
My point still stands.
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vasudeva
Bad Taste in your Mouth SSHOLEPosts: 4540 Registered: 3/8/2002 Offline
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5/4/2007 at 00:11 |
Wrecker: And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.
I don't get this part. If your aunt had balls, she'd be your boyfriend again. What am I missing?
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slippedhole> I am on to you and your evil intentions. I am the true protector of this website and am willing to do battle with you. |
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Wrecker
Misanthrope SSHOLEPosts: 463 Registered: 1/25/2006 Offline
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5/4/2007 at 00:16 |
vasudeva: Wrecker: And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.
I don't get this part. If your aunt had balls, she'd be your boyfriend again. What am I missing?
Stop changing the subject.
And get out of my head.
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mcgarpat
DARTH MENSES Posts: 413 Registered: 7/10/2005 Offline
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5/4/2007 at 03:11 |
Wrecker.
I see your points and they are valid in a perfect world where the correct but naive perception that the government is by the people. The eight are irrelevant, it's the process that is wrong. there was nothing illegal here. This guy was just stupid.
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jwalker
Token Discordian SSHOLEPosts: 958 Registered: 8/6/2005 Offline
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5/4/2007 at 04:32 |
Wrecker: And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.
'may constitute' and 'does constitute' do not mean the same thing, regardless of how much you wish it.
My point still stands.
They're holding hearings to help determine what happened. Karl Rove's emails have been subpoenaed. You 'may have seen' this in the news recently.
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Wrecker
Misanthrope SSHOLEPosts: 463 Registered: 1/25/2006 Offline
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5/5/2007 at 15:01 |
jwalker: They're holding hearings to help determine what happened. Karl Rove's emails have been subpoenaed. You 'may have seen' this in the news recently.
Which means what exactly? Please don't tell me that you believe THIS to be the silver bullet that will bring down Dubya.
Actually, please DO tell me that. I need a hearty laugh.
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