mundhra
dread pirate neckbeard   SSHOLE |
Posts: 1600 Registered: 3/25/2002 Offline
|
4/11/2007 at 02:28 |
i've been hitting the rec center recently and working out while the woman swims. unfortunately, i'm so busy at work i only really get there once a week. i want to maximize what i can do in my time there and thought about this link. i figured i'd call on the wisdom of the swarm to see what's what.
what i do when i'm there:
10 min on the bullshit fake elliptical slider thing
10 min on recumbent bike
40 min on weight machines
3 sets bench and/or incline press
2 sets wide-grip anterior lat pulldown
2 sets lat row (horizontal cable)
2 sets bicep curl
2 sets tricep extension
1 extended set abs
1 extended set back
target set = 20 reps
there are no free weights. they have a leg press and leg extension/curl machine. i haven't been using these regularly because i don't get near as fatigued with leg exercises. also, they have two of the stand up, swing arm, multi-exercise things.
i have a couple questions:
a) are any of these pointless/stupid?
b) what should i do instead? (i don't have any equipment at home but might pick up dumbells)
c) how many repetitions is a proper set?
d) are descending sets ok? (1st = 20 reps, 2nd = 15 reps)
e) which is better, sets of 20 reps @ X vs sets of 10 reps @ X+25?
f) any specific concerns i should have with a 10 year old elbow dislocation?
it seems like you can get different opinions with each different source you read; one thing says 'high weight/low reps = muscle' while another says 'lower weight/high reps = toning' while another says 'lower weight/high reps = joint stress'.
i realize these are probably pretty basic questions, so forgive me if i sound like an idiot. thanks in advance for any advice/sources.
____________________
But the whole of modern so-called civilized existence is an attempt to deny reality insofar as it exists. When did Don last look at the stars, when did Norman last get soaked in a rainstorm?
|
| |
dent
Slipping it into the wrong hole any chance I get  SSHOLEPosts: 816 Registered: 10/20/2004 Offline
|
4/11/2007 at 03:24 |
I did quite a bit of body building a few years back with insane results. I weighed in at about 176 and gained 25 pounds of bulk that I still carry. That's what I wanted, to get larger - not slim down and appear ripped.
That's the first question that you need to ask and answer for yourself: Do I want to bulk up with muscle and be physically larger/healthier or do I want to lose weight while ripping the fuk out of my muscles appearing slimmer, but shaped unlike a pear?
Once you answer that question you can now move on to the proper training regimen FOR YOUR BODY that will bridge the gap between your current state and Muscle Bound Mundra of the future, as both physiques have totally different training attacks.
Secondly, as anyone in LS who has weight-trained can agree - one of the biggest reasons for failure is blowing off the gym because of schedules or laziness.
- Decide what your ultimate goal is
- Carve a training schedule into stone and don't screw it up
- Design a training regimen around both models from above
- Success
____________________
"You must have weak asslips. I like to sculpt mine on the way out, like table legs under a lathe" - Vasudeva |
| |
shitbox
my balls your chin, get used to that idea  SSHOLEPosts: 893 Registered: 1/9/2005 Offline
|
4/11/2007 at 03:50 |
Dent pretty much summed it up.
I just joined a gym in Feb. and have been looking to tone up and increase my bulk simultaneously. I'm 6'2'' and now weigh 189lbs, since I quit smoking I've gained about 10 pounds.
I do high reps of 50% of my max weight(the highest weight I can successfully complete ONCE) and about 30 minutes of cardio before I lift to warm everything up.
This seems to be workin' nicely for me as I cant tell that my body has changed but the missus says that 'your arms feel bigger' and Im getting these fun little stretch marks on my biceps. 
As for the freeweights, that is THE best way to go about it for a few reasons. Free weights(dumbells) allow you a more natural and free range of motion, thus providing you with a better and more complete workout. Plus, all the huge guys at the gym I go to use 'em.
____________________
"Kill him! Kill the fuckin' indian! What am I watching here two fuckin' fags!?"
Rodney Dangerfield as Ed Wilson
|
| |
vasudeva
Bad Taste in your Mouth  SSHOLEPosts: 4360 Registered: 3/8/2002 Offline
|
4/11/2007 at 11:51 |
Mundhra:
10 min on the bullshit fake elliptical slider thing
10 min on recumbent bike
40 min on weight machines
3 sets bench and/or incline press
2 sets wide-grip anterior lat pulldown
2 sets lat row (horizontal cable)
2 sets bicep curl
2 sets tricep extension
1 extended set abs
1 extended set back
I don't know that you should mix aerobic and anaerobic. I think this might be one of those bullshit things that everyone has a different opinion and pseudoscience factoid on, but my last go-round, I would run like 4 miles and then do a lot of heavy lifting right after, and it took me forever to get anywhere. The gist, as I understand it, is that although you may want to do a little warmup before lifting, anything more than a couple minutes of cardio works against any large-muscle stuff you then do.
A lot of people who seem to take it seriously alternate days -- one day cardio, one day musclemass. That's what I'd be doing, if I gave a shit about musclemass at the moment. Let me know what you find out about this, because I was too stupid to talk to a trainer when I had them around for free and am working off the same stupid gym lore as anyone else.
how many repetitions is a proper set?
d) are descending sets ok? (1st = 20 reps, 2nd = 15 reps)
e) which is better, sets of 20 reps @ X vs sets of 10 reps @ X+25?
If you're going for muscle mass, I think you want to do as much as possible of whatever brings you the most muscle fatigue while not dropping large metal objects on your head and balls. The progression I see among beefheads a lot is...
1st set: 7 reps
2nd set: 4 reps
3rd set: 2 reps
or thereabouts, the point being, if you can do more than a couple on your last set, you're not really fatigued, and have been pussyfooting around. This is for muscle-jerks. Those lithe womanfaggots who focus on tone, I dunno.
f) any specific concerns i should have with a 10 year old elbow dislocation?
If it hurts or affects freedom of movement, baby it. See someone about it, because you can easily make shit worse and your elbow is a pretty important part of your shit.
it seems like you can get different opinions with each different source you read; one thing says 'high weight/low reps = muscle' while another says 'lower weight/high reps = toning' while another says 'lower weight/high reps = joint stress'.
I believe all three make sense. At least, that's what I've always heard and followed. You can get joint stress by doing anything wrong enough, but the wear and tear of lots of reps helps that happen.
Seconding shitbox' freeweights thing. Machines are good if you want to focus a certain muscle in a certain way, though I think that's a concern mostly for male models and the like. With freeweights, you have to control the weight in all dimensions as you work with it, so you end up working out all the ancillary muscles as well, and not just the ones responsible for motion in the one or two dimensions the machine allows.
____________________
mundhra: And its crocobody is made of dile. |
| |
Steel
If you want to keep your tongue, don't lick me in the Winter!  SSHOLEPosts: 479 Registered: 10/14/2004 Offline
|
4/11/2007 at 12:37 |
The guy I train with went from my current weight (195) to 136 in a year and a few months and is really lean now... I'm working towards this... He swears by this book "Burn the Fat/Feed the Muscle" so I've been reading it... I will send it to anyone who wants it... Unless someone knows how I can quickly host a PDF? (Only 2Mb)
We work out for about 30-40 min 4 days a week. We include first Weight Training, different muscle groups everyday...Then add 10 Min of High Intensity Cardio...
He says doing cardio after your weight training increases calorie burn because of something about how your muscles are already in some kind of mode from being worked just before...sorry that didn't sound to technical...
Like the other guys said...The PDF I'm reading is very goal setting oriented... A pretty good read I think... We'll see if it helps I guess... |
| |
HOBO
* b0bo has quit IRC ('Exit')  SSHOLEPosts: 1107 Registered: 3/19/2002 Offline
|
4/11/2007 at 14:22 |
I've been working with a trainer and in the past two months I have lost 30lbs. and have toned up. This is what I do:
Monday: 40 minutes cardio. Key is to get your heart rate around 140 for someone your age. After I weight train for 45-60 minutes- later on that.
Tuesday: Cardio for 45-60 minutes followed by ab work for 15 minutes
Wednesday: Repeat Monday
Thursday: repeat Tuesday
Friday: off
Saturday: repeat Monday
Sunday: Repeat Tuesday
Weight training: I do circuit training 20 reps only one set at each station. I use enough weight that i'm struggling with reps 18-20. I also use the 2 count for lift and 4 count for return position. I don't rest between stations.
____________________
" I have never understood the female capacity to avoid a direct answer to any question." ~Spock~
|
| |
Mofo
dont give a shit  SSHOLEPosts: 422 Registered: 2/8/2004 Offline
|
4/11/2007 at 16:51 |
I don't know that you should mix aerobic and anaerobic. I think this might be one of those bullshit things that everyone has a different opinion and pseudoscience factoid on, but my last go-round, I would run like 4 miles and then do a lot of heavy lifting right after, and it took me forever to get anywhere. The gist, as I understand it, is that although you may want to do a little warmup before lifting, anything more than a couple minutes of cardio works against any large-muscle stuff you then do.
A lot of people who seem to take it seriously alternate days -- one day cardio, one day musclemass. That's what I'd be doing, if I gave a shit about musclemass at the moment. Let me know what you find out about this, because I was too stupid to talk to a trainer when I had them around for free and am working off the same stupid gym lore as anyone else.
in the 6 years of football I played, there were always mixed. Hour of lifting, hour of running in the summer every day. However, it'd be go lower body lifting and agility drill, then upper body lifting and long distance running. |
| |
vasudeva
Bad Taste in your Mouth SSHOLEPosts: 4360 Registered: 3/8/2002 Offline
|
4/11/2007 at 17:29 |
Mofo: in the 6 years of football I played, there were always mixed. Hour of lifting, hour of running in the summer every day. However, it'd be go lower body lifting and agility drill, then upper body lifting and long distance running.
I would guess you were training for cardiovascular fitness as opposed to weight training.
____________________
mundhra: And its crocobody is made of dile. |
| |
sugarslim
Tender vittles  Posts: 49 Registered: 1/20/2004 Offline
|
4/11/2007 at 19:06 |
If you want funtional muscle that not only looks good but also donates to ease of movement and flexibility, I would recommend reading up on Matt Furey and Pavel Tsatsouline (you can find their ebooks on bittorrent, if not I can send them), two fitness minimalists. Weights do produce large muscles however the resulting mass is nonfunctional and requires increased caloric intake to maintain.
If you insist on using some sort resistance, go get a kettlebell hardest workout you'll ever get.
Also the Seals use a device called the TRX Suspension Trainer, my gym just got em, pretty sweet. |
| |
HOBO
* b0bo has quit IRC ('Exit') SSHOLEPosts: 1107 Registered: 3/19/2002 Offline
|
4/11/2007 at 20:14 |
sugarslim: If you want funtional muscle that not only looks good but also donates to ease of movement and flexibility, I would recommend reading up on Matt Furey and Pavel Tsatsouline (you can find their ebooks on bittorrent, if not I can send them), two fitness minimalists. Weights do produce large muscles however the resulting mass is nonfunctional and requires increased caloric intake to maintain.
This is an excellent point. If in fact larger muscle mass equaled better performance than body builders would be our greatest athletes. In my opinion most of the body builders I have met have very little athletic ability,(minus freakish strength)
____________________
" I have never understood the female capacity to avoid a direct answer to any question." ~Spock~
|
| |
Uart
DARTH MENSES  Posts: 1228 Registered: 3/5/2005 Offline
|
4/11/2007 at 22:22 |
vasudeva: how many repetitions is a proper set?
d) are descending sets ok? (1st = 20 reps, 2nd = 15 reps)
e) which is better, sets of 20 reps @ X vs sets of 10 reps @ X+25?
If you're going for muscle mass, I think you want to do as much as possible of whatever brings you the most muscle fatigue while not dropping large metal objects on your head and balls. The progression I see among beefheads a lot is...
1st set: 7 reps
2nd set: 4 reps
3rd set: 2 reps
or thereabouts, the point being, if you can do more than a couple on your last set, you're not really fatigued, and have been pussyfooting around. This is for muscle-jerks. Those lithe womanfaggots who focus on tone, I dunno.
Ok
how many repetitions is a proper set? Honestly, that depends on what you want to do... if you want to build muscle and lift heavier weights, then you'll do fewer reps, if you want to lose weight/gain definition you'll do more reps.
Descending Sets are ok, but let me explain...
The progression I see among beefheads a lot is...
1st set: 7 reps
2nd set: 4 reps
3rd set: 2 reps
Regardless of your goal, the first set is a warm-up. You don't lift your target weight in the first set, just a "safe" weight that you know you won't have trouble with. You do a couple reps in the hopes that you won't injure yourself later. Usually, when I am not a lazy bastard I'll open with 10 reps.
The second set is going to be a higher weight. If you want definition/weight loss, you'll pick a weight that you know you can easily do a bunch of reps at -- in this case, you definitely want more than 4 reps. If you want to gain muscle-mass and strength, you need to pick a weight that will challenge you, but that you ultimately know you can lift. Pick a number of reps to do here that makes sense, you don't want to be dead after your second set.
The third set is more of the same if you want tone. Otherwise, this is where you increase the weight again and see a) if you even CAN lift the higher weight and b) how many times you can lift it.
Some people do four sets -- same idea, just adjust the formula.
If you are successful, you will feel your IQ drop 10 points by the end of the workout. |
| |
vasudeva
Bad Taste in your Mouth SSHOLEPosts: 4360 Registered: 3/8/2002 Offline
|
4/11/2007 at 22:39 |
Uart: If you are successful, you will feel your IQ drop 10 points by the end of the workout.
I actually believe this has a decent chance of being true. When I was lifting every day, I know for sure I picked up a little animal dumb in there somewhere.
Weights do produce large muscles however the resulting mass is nonfunctional and requires increased caloric intake to maintain.
I like those guys who lift heavy weights with the fast jerking motions and end up with big puffy muscles that look like water wings. These are often the guys who you tend to find still wearing Zubaz.
____________________
mundhra: And its crocobody is made of dile. |
| |
middle_age_man
Mostly Harmless  SSHOLEPosts: 427 Registered: 1/11/2005 Offline
|
4/11/2007 at 22:40 |
My wife is trying to talk me into buying a Bowflex. I don’t do any weight training at the moment but owning some equipment would motivate me. Has anybody used one, are they worth it? Are the weight training dietary supplements helpful or is a high protein diet regimen sufficient?
____________________
" Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy."
George Carlin |
| |
mundhra
dread pirate neckbeard SSHOLEPosts: 1600 Registered: 3/25/2002 Offline
|
4/11/2007 at 23:37 |
crazy amount of responses. i wish i had been able to reply before this.
dent: the first question that you need to ask and answer for yourself: Do I want to bulk up with muscle and be physically larger/healthier or do I want to lose weight while ripping the fuk out of my muscles appearing slimmer, but shaped unlike a pear?
my goal is to build some more muscle mass in my upper body to a) gain strength b) increase calorie burning to ultimately lose weight
i'm pretty weak in my upper body, so i would like to get stronger. bulking up is not a goal.
i weigh 285, which is just shy of my all-time worst. a year and so ago i was down to 262. my wife broke her ankle in december 05 and i stopped being active and started eating badly.
dent: Secondly, as anyone in LS who has weight-trained can agree - one of the biggest reasons for failure is blowing off the gym because of schedules or laziness.
i know, i know. 
vasudeva: because I was too stupid to talk to a trainer when I had them around for free
ditto
i found .pdfs ref'd by steel and sugarslim on demonoid.
dent and uart: can you both weigh in on cardio?
thanks everyone, keep the responses coming.
p.s. ZUBAZ!
On 2007-04-11 at 18:48:48, mundhra pooped back and forth... forever
____________________
But the whole of modern so-called civilized existence is an attempt to deny reality insofar as it exists. When did Don last look at the stars, when did Norman last get soaked in a rainstorm? |
| |
sugarslim
Tender vittles Posts: 49 Registered: 1/20/2004 Offline
|
4/12/2007 at 02:11 |
M_A_M, bowflex isnt worth the money, yes its effective but they charge a premium for it, go get a TRX for 150 bux and use it / take it anywhere.
As far as supplementation is concerned, eat a gram of protein per lb of lean body mass per day and stay away from supplements (yes they do work, yes you will like them and your gains will be dependent on them). If you must take them, DO NOT GO TO GNC, buy em off the net; read product reviews, meatheads blog too.
Mundhra, if you do go with the weights option, do not overlook your legs, for a number of reasons: legs are key for test production, they are the largest muscles (hence largest fat burners) and finally in the event that your upper body increases in lean mass you MUST have a proportionate core and legs else you will become very injury prone.
Regarding weights and IQ here is perhaps the biggest reason to stay away from the iron: anaerobic physical exertion is directly proportional to cranial blood pressure, maximal/supramaximal (assisted) exertions can raise mean arterial pressure by as much as 40 mm Hg according to some studies. This is weightlifting's dirty secret: powerlifting is highly correlated with aneurysms and strokes (subdural hematoma bitches). High repetition workouts do not incur such risks, only massive increases in metrosexuality. |
| |
Uart
DARTH MENSES Posts: 1228 Registered: 3/5/2005 Offline
|
4/12/2007 at 04:13 |
mundhra: dent and uart: can you both weigh in on cardio?
Ok, well, I come from the minimalist school of cardio. The main point of cardio is to get your heart rate up, and hopefully leave you a bit winded.
Cardio is the most important part of any weight-losing exercise regimen. I prefer running, usually, but running can be rough on the joints... basically pick something that works for you, something you are comfortable doing, and then do it until you physically can't go anymore.
If you have a "problem area" that you'd like to work on, you should pick an exercise that works that area (ie, if you want to eliminate man-boobs, use the rowing machine). You can do multiple cardio exercises if you want, I don't see anything wrong with it.
I suggest doing cardio after weights if possible, because you should be dead tired after cardio.
If you want to look all crazy-jacked like a Pro-Wrestler, then you might want to ask an expert, because I'm SURE that my strategy won't get you to that point. |
| |
Mofo
dont give a shit SSHOLEPosts: 422 Registered: 2/8/2004 Offline
|
4/12/2007 at 05:05 |
I would guess you were training for cardiovascular fitness as opposed to weight training.
Not really. I played Offensive line - our life was weight training. They had a couple of local fitness freaks and others weigh in and help design the program - a former Olympian runner from Kenya ( i dunno if he ever actually won), a former NFL O linemen, and a couple of trainers/doctors.
I guess the effectiveness came in using different muscles in the running and lifting parts. Or something. All I know is that a i got a lot stronger and a lot faster using the program. |
| |
LOki
Refusenik  SSHOLEPosts: 480 Registered: 3/8/2002 Offline
|
4/12/2007 at 15:58 |
Diet:
Smoke cigarettes to control your hunger.
If your still hungry after a smoke, booze up. Booze is full of calories, but they're empty calories, so they don't count.
Workout:
Think deep thoughts. Your brain uses a lot of calories, and the more you use it, the more calories you burn.
If you must get physically active, shovel the snow from my driveway, or in the summer, cut my grass.
____________________
|
| |
LORDKAHUNA
Don't make me fuk your moustache  SSHOLEPosts: 1593 Registered: 8/5/2003 Offline
|
4/12/2007 at 19:44 |
Ancient BBP wisdom:
Two cheeseburgers a day, and all the green beans you can eat.
____________________
Sexninja> I will not your farts |
| |
LOki
Refusenik SSHOLEPosts: 480 Registered: 3/8/2002 Offline
|
4/12/2007 at 19:48 |
LORDKAHUNA: Ancient BBP wisdom:
Two cheeseburgers a day, and all the green beans you can eat. OMFLOL!!!! YES!!!!
____________________
|
| |
dent
Slipping it into the wrong hole any chance I get SSHOLEPosts: 816 Registered: 10/20/2004 Offline
|
4/12/2007 at 20:44 |
Cardio is pretty dang important, especially if you want to lose weight. If you didn't already know, raising your heart rate burns calories. Just as well, the movements associated with running and/or power-walking kick calories.
Think about this: 3,500 calories equal 1 pound of fat. In order to burn off fat you need to burn at least 3,500 calories by eating less or running more. It doesn't work any other way. So, being that a mile walk burns about 200-250 calories for your weight that you stated earlier, you could burn up to 3-4 pounds a month just by eating less and walking.
If you watch what you eat (2,500 calories or less a day) AND run a mile a day (7-15 minutes) you can double that figure in a month. I went on a diet that was 1500 calories a day, and ran a mile a day for 2 weeks and lost 7 pounds.
Another way to look at cardio is this: if you want to lose weight with cardio, you have to diet if you're eating more than 2500 calories a day. There's absolutely no ifs, ands, or butts about it. If you want to solely strengthen your cardiovascular system, then dieting doesn't play as big a role.
Lastly, if you run a mile each day, diet by eating under the allotted calorie intake (use any online calories calculator, but most men our age will be around a 2500 intake) AND lift weights, you'll probably shed 15 lbs in the first month. I did this for a few months and ran dangerously low, at a 7% body fat ratio, as a normal, reachable goal is 15%.
____________________
"You must have weak asslips. I like to sculpt mine on the way out, like table legs under a lathe" - Vasudeva |
| |
LOki
Refusenik SSHOLEPosts: 480 Registered: 3/8/2002 Offline
|
4/13/2007 at 19:20 |
Ghostie's training partner: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-84158881543485392&q=industrial+hygiene
____________________
|
| |
coknurmowth
Crisco Fux  SSHOLEPosts: 107 Registered: 10/20/2005 Offline
|
4/13/2007 at 19:43 |
what i do when I'm there:
10 min on the bullshit fake elliptical slider thing
10 min on recumbent bike
40 min on weight machines
3 sets bench and/or incline press
2 sets wide-grip anterior lat pulldown
2 sets lat row (horizontal cable)
2 sets bicep curl
2 sets tricep extension
1 extended set abs
1 extended set back
Do the entire hour on the recumbent bike 3-5 days a week for the next 6 months and you will be in the best shape of your life.
In order to get a truly effective workout, you should do your cardiovascular work within your training zone. This is a range dependent on your age and is determined with an easy formula. Subtract your age from 220. Take this number and multiply it by .6 and you have your lower exercise range. Multiply it by .8 and there's your higher exercise range.
staying in the lower range increases fat burning / upper range increases cardio. I used to ride the recumbent bike 6 days a week at 80% max and my endurance increased, but I switched to a slower pace and I dropped lbs. like crazy
____________________
|
| |
dent
Slipping it into the wrong hole any chance I get SSHOLEPosts: 816 Registered: 10/20/2004 Offline
|
4/14/2007 at 04:08 |
Riding the cucumber bike won't build mega-mundra muscles all over his shit, though.
____________________
"You must have weak asslips. I like to sculpt mine on the way out, like table legs under a lathe" - Vasudeva |
| |
coknurmowth
Crisco Fux SSHOLEPosts: 107 Registered: 10/20/2005 Offline
|
4/14/2007 at 15:26 |
but it will expose the inner massive-Mundra-muscle-mass
____________________
|
| |
IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil
SENATOR BABYHEAD  Posts: 244 Registered: 3/17/2005 Offline
|
4/15/2007 at 16:56 |
http://exrx.net
there be some heavy kinesiology up in that mutha.
____________________
If you include a null character |
| |
government_death_robot
DARTH MENSES  Posts: 889 Registered: 4/23/2004 Offline
|
4/15/2007 at 22:03 |
What kind of exercises make your neck bigger?
____________________
bwned. |
| |
sugarslim
Tender vittles Posts: 49 Registered: 1/20/2004 Offline
|
4/16/2007 at 01:20 |
dumbell shoulder shrugs, most recommend a heavier weight, i would emphasize technique and range of motion when selecting your weight |
| |
dent
Slipping it into the wrong hole any chance I get SSHOLEPosts: 816 Registered: 10/20/2004 Offline
|
4/16/2007 at 02:18 |
What kind of exercises make your neck bigger?
The same one Dumbskull used to get to stay at a certain Swarmer's house.
____________________
"You must have weak asslips. I like to sculpt mine on the way out, like table legs under a lathe" - Vasudeva |
| |
government_death_robot
DARTH MENSES Posts: 889 Registered: 4/23/2004 Offline
|
4/16/2007 at 03:10 |
dent: What kind of exercises make your neck bigger?
The same one Dumbskull used to get to stay at a certain Swarmer's house.
Oh.
____________________
bwned. |
| |
