coknurmowth
Crisco Fux   SSHOLE |
Posts: 127 Registered: 10/20/2005 Offline
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3/29/2007 at 14:17 |
when you vote a "x" does that also count as a -1?
If 7 people vote and 3 are +1, 2 are -1, and 2 are X. Is it going to pass because there are more +1's than negative votes?
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mundhra
dread pirate neckbeard  SSHOLEPosts: 1671 Registered: 3/25/2002 Offline
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3/29/2007 at 14:36 |
i've previously discussed this with vas. +1, -1, and X are all recorded separately. there are thresholds for each one, but your assumption is essentially correct. if the -1 and X votes are both within one of threshold when +1 reaches threshold, it will pass. my position is that -1 and X are both basically 'no' with the X vote carrying a condition of delete. of course, this is assuming that everyone uses the X vote correctly. per vas: Deletions only being appropriate when it's a repeat of something already on the front page, something broken, or something so bad that no record need exist of it (google.com, maybe). i myself am probably guilty of jumping the X gun. i'd say when in doubt, -1.
revisions to this system are being looked at for v2.0.
*edit: this is the system as i understand it, but i may not be 100% correct.
On 2007-03-29 at 10:27:32, mundhra pooped back and forth... forever
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Clavis_Apocalypticae
Beautiful Puppet of Chaos  SSHOLEPosts: 780 Registered: 5/16/2004 Offline
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3/29/2007 at 15:01 |
FWIW, Mundhra's explanation coincides with my understanding of the process as well.
TESTIFY!
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coknurmowth
Crisco Fux SSHOLEPosts: 127 Registered: 10/20/2005 Offline
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3/30/2007 at 03:59 |
thanks for the clarification. I rarely vote X, but I was wondering if it was counting when i did.
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Clavis_Apocalypticae
Beautiful Puppet of Chaos SSHOLEPosts: 780 Registered: 5/16/2004 Offline
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3/30/2007 at 07:14 |
Now that I've thought more about it, I think there is a special condition attached to "X" votes. X" doesn't need to have a majority of votes to be applied. It's more like x number of "X" votes need be tallied before a link is sent into the Void, where x= a small number. Vasudeva discussed it right after the option was added. I don't know if he still uses the same formula these days; we'll have to wait for him to weigh in.
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Lefen
I think Clavis wins my heart <3  SSHOLEPosts: 903 Registered: 9/16/2003 Offline
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3/30/2007 at 11:20 |
Vas' AQ formula includes 11 sekret herbs and spices, y0
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SexNinja
the illest nigga  SSHOLEPosts: 1537 Registered: 10/28/2007 Offline
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3/30/2007 at 14:00 |
coknurmowth: thanks for the clarification. I rarely vote X, but I was wondering if it was counting when i did.
Most likely not. It seemed like people didn't use it when it was very clearly needed, so I am now actively going into the AQ and force-deleting/rejecting stuff whenever I can.
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Clavis_Apocalypticae
Beautiful Puppet of Chaos SSHOLEPosts: 780 Registered: 5/16/2004 Offline
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3/30/2007 at 14:08 |
SexNinjaMcDeath: coknurmowth: thanks for the clarification. I rarely vote X, but I was wondering if it was counting when i did.
Most likely not. It seemed like people didn't use it when it was very clearly needed, so I am now actively going into the AQ and force-deleting/rejecting stuff whenever I can.
Pls PM me the details on this feat of magick and w00tness.
kthx
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Dumbskull
I'm assuming the position!  SSHOLEPosts: 1926 Registered: 4/22/2004 Offline
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3/30/2007 at 16:03 |
It is best not to question the complicated fuzzy logic of the AQ; whatever happens just does.
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imfrans
SENATOR BABYHEAD  Posts: 244 Registered: 1/17/2004 Offline
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3/30/2007 at 17:28 |
Dumbskull: It is best not to question the complicated fuzzy logic of the AQ; whatever happens just does.
haha! riight!
sounds to frans like that is the way u live yr life too,dumbskull...(frans spends countless hours scanning the buttholes of the USA for signs of yr dwellings) the dumbskulll intrigue continues peoples! what? ok? YES!
thank u frans
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Dumbskull
I'm assuming the position! SSHOLEPosts: 1926 Registered: 4/22/2004 Offline
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3/31/2007 at 15:16 |
imfrans: Dumbskull: It is best not to question the complicated fuzzy logic of the AQ; whatever happens just does.
haha! riight!
sounds to frans like that is the way u live yr life too,dumbskull...(frans spends countless hours scanning the buttholes of the USA for signs of yr dwellings) the dumbskulll intrigue continues peoples! what? ok? YES!
thank u frans
Somewhere out there beneath the pale moonlight
Someone's thinking of me and loving me tonight
Thank you frans. It warms my wretched cold heart knowing you have been spending so much time thinking about my miserable life.
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freakbass
SENATOR BABYHEAD  Posts: 128 Registered: 2/12/2006 Offline
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3/31/2007 at 20:52 |
I've always wondered how AQ works as the content stream here at LS can be sporadic.
sometimes lots of new links are on the front page and other times they seem to move through at a snail's pace..
the same (obviously) on the other side with submissions. admin approved links aside, sometimes a link sent into AQ is approved/denied within hours or a day, other times it takes a week or longer.
It always made me wonder how many people need to vote on something before it gets the yay or nay.
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dragonstaff
Too old to Rock and Roll...too young to die  SSHOLEPosts: 767 Registered: 8/19/2004 Offline
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4/1/2007 at 02:54 |
SexNinjaMcDeath: coknurmowth: thanks for the clarification. I rarely vote X, but I was wondering if it was counting when i did.
Most likely not. It seemed like people didn't use it when it was very clearly needed, so I am now actively going into the AQ and force-deleting/rejecting stuff whenever I can.
I will use the 'X' option on links I think are absolute crap, and on those that appear several times in the AQ ( the first of these gets a 'yay' or 'nay' vote, the rest get the 'X' ), or those that I know are recent repeats. I don't trust my memory for possible older repeats.
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Clavis_Apocalypticae
Beautiful Puppet of Chaos SSHOLEPosts: 780 Registered: 5/16/2004 Offline
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4/1/2007 at 03:01 |
dragonstaff:
I will use the 'X' option on links I think are absolute crap, and on those that appear several times in the AQ ( the first of these gets a 'yay' or 'nay' vote, the rest get the 'X' ), or those that I know are recent repeats. I don't trust my memory for possible older repeats.
A capital plan, sir; and a fine example I'd encourage other Alpha's to follow.
ALPHAPROTIP: The Search Box is your friend and ally in weeding out repeats. Make judicious use of that fuker. If a contextual search doesn't yield the result you're looking for, try searching for the root domain name.
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dragonstaff
Too old to Rock and Roll...too young to die SSHOLEPosts: 767 Registered: 8/19/2004 Offline
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4/1/2007 at 05:29 |
I also tend to '-' youtube links because there is a perfectly good forum for them to go into without cluttering up the front page.
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ghostrider
liberal exit  SSHOLEPosts: 2502 Registered: 7/29/2004 Offline
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4/5/2007 at 19:25 |
I'm not trying to threadjack here(lol), but let me just say this about that:
I know there is some concerns, from admins on down to the lurkers, about how good or wise the AQ voting system is. In it's defense I will say I remember the days when the main page wouldn't change for 2-3 days in a row, at times. What I like about the AQ system is LS always offers fresh links these days.
I know we all say about a good percent of the links, "Repeat, This is old, This is retarded" etc. It has flaws, I just wanted to throw some positive vibes or whatnot at the system.
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Crackalackin
SENATOR BABYHEAD  Posts: 389 Registered: 7/19/2004 Offline
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4/5/2007 at 19:37 |
dragonstaff: I also tend to '-' youtube links because there is a perfectly good forum for them to go into without cluttering up the front page.
That (partially) explains the fate of some links I submitted.
Why not '-' the links to web pages too, because there are perfectly good forums for them to go to without cluttering up the front page?
Senor numbnuts, may I respectfully point out that the point is not the keep the front page clean, but to separate the pearls from pigshit? And this process should ideally be medium-agnostic: text sites, photos, videos, and even, eventually, Smell-O-Vision if that turns mainstream.
On 2007-04-05 at 14:39:46, Crackalackin pooped back and forth... forever
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vasudeva
Bad Taste in your Mouth  SSHOLEPosts: 4540 Registered: 3/8/2002 Offline
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4/5/2007 at 19:57 |
mundhra: i've previously discussed this with vas. +1, -1, and X are all recorded separately. there are thresholds for each one, but your assumption is essentially correct. if the -1 and X votes are both within one of threshold when +1 reaches threshold, it will pass. my position is that -1 and X are both basically 'no' with the X vote carrying a condition of delete. of course, this is assuming that everyone uses the X vote correctly. per vas: Deletions only being appropriate when it's a repeat of something already on the front page, something broken, or something so bad that no record need exist of it (google.com, maybe). i myself am probably guilty of jumping the X gun. i'd say when in doubt, -1.
revisions to this system are being looked at for v2.0.
*edit: this is the system as i understand it, but i may not be 100% correct.
This is oll korrect.
You can think of the +1, -1, and X as being a race. Whichever one gets satisfied first wins.
I've avoided specifically revealing these because it changes from time to time and will probably not engender much constructive debate, but will do so now anyway for the fuck of it:
The Alpha Queue currently takes...
5 +1s for a link to be approved
7 -1s for a link to be rejected
4 Xs for a link to be deleted
It really is simple -- if a link has 4 +1s and 3 Xs and someone votes X, it deletes and is gone forever. The Xs won.
Thanks for bumping this, Ghost. I had missed it in my vacation.
Ghostrider: I know there is some concerns, from admins on down to the lurkers, about how good or wise the AQ voting system is. In it's defense I will say I remember the days when the main page wouldn't change for 2-3 days in a row, at times. What I like about the AQ system is LS always offers fresh links these days.
When used. I appreciate your injection of warm fuzzy huggable bees and wish I could do the same but the AQ has been a bitter source of frustration for me. I note with a kind of sour misanthropy how underused the AQ is now that the Alpha reject reasons are hidden. I'm working on bringing these back and trying to balance out that queue in other ways.
We really do need a way to achieve a constant, steady stream of content without me working the levers. I've put in a time-release routine recently where if 8 links are approved at once (from any queue) they trickle out onto the main page every X minutes instead of dumping out in a glob. This seems to be working. I put that in because the only thing that really felt successful was me sitting at the lever pushing something out every 30 minutes or so, which I can do for spells while doing other shit but obviously can't do a whole lot of the time and is a truly gay way to work a website in a world where we have computers and people who like using them to achieve goals we can kind of agree on as a group.
To reiterate, in case anyone doesn't know:
+1 means you like it and think a decent proportion of Swarmers will like it and it will 'work' as a part of the Swarm.
-1 means you disagree with some sizeable piece of the above.
X means it's broken, earth-shatteringly retarded, a repeat of something that's been up in the last couple days, or smells like freakbass submitted it.
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Mofo
dont give a shit  SSHOLEPosts: 439 Registered: 2/8/2004 Offline
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4/6/2007 at 03:00 |
Haha, i always thought the X meant you don't care, and just want to stop being annoyed by the You have X amount of links shit. |
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DonQuixote
DARTH MENSES  Posts: 641 Registered: 4/22/2005 Offline
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4/7/2007 at 04:31 |
Mofo: Haha, i always thought the X meant you don't care, and just want to stop being annoyed by the You have X amount of links shit.
Um, that kinda sounds like a good idea though. If we know we aren't going to be around for a bit, is there anyway to turn our voting off? Sometimes the cue gets really big and I'm sure its cuz peeps be busy an shit. So maybe if the AQ could have an opt out, or on vacation option?? Pretty plz?
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vasudeva
Bad Taste in your Mouth SSHOLEPosts: 4540 Registered: 3/8/2002 Offline
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4/7/2007 at 13:26 |
DonQuixote: If we know we aren't going to be around for a bit, is there anyway to turn our voting off? Sometimes the cue gets really big and I'm sure its cuz peeps be busy an shit. So maybe if the AQ could have an opt out, or on vacation option?? Pretty plz?
This concept has no meaning. Are you thinking that each link in the Alpha Queue is waiting for DonQuixote (and Sahlgoode) to come vote?
Ah, I bet this is an OCD thing, yes?
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slippedhole> I am on to you and your evil intentions. I am the true protector of this website and am willing to do battle with you. |
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mundhra
dread pirate neckbeard SSHOLEPosts: 1671 Registered: 3/25/2002 Offline
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4/7/2007 at 21:24 |
jesus fucking christ
fucking christ jesus
christ jesus fucking
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freakbass
SENATOR BABYHEAD Posts: 128 Registered: 2/12/2006 Offline
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4/8/2007 at 06:27 |
why not have the voting parameters lessen when there is a bottleneck?
perhaps, hypothetically, if voting is slow, or if something like +30 votes in alpha at one time then +3 yes votes get posted...
lots have expressed that the alpha voting results are a very confusing beast, so what is the reasoning to have the yes tally so high (7). Does that really increase the quality of submissions?
Lately it seems that the front page is churning forward properly but who knows if that is from alpha or from admin acceptance.
There are many sites where the admins post EVERYTHING. Most of them are inferior to LS, but regardless, isn't this system designed so the admins do not have to work overtime to keep the front page flowing/current?
I mean, if a bunch of the alpha members are on vacation, on a binge, gambling in vagas, , etc.. that means the LS front page shuts down and the links we all view are 3 days old or more.. with like 50 of them waiting to be voted on? Everyone is cool with that system?
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dragonstaff
Too old to Rock and Roll...too young to die SSHOLEPosts: 767 Registered: 8/19/2004 Offline
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4/9/2007 at 00:58 |
I have noticed lately that some links that have a 'rejected' icon next to the title have neither a list of voters from the AQ, nor an admin rejection reason in the link comments title box.
Example.
I was wondering why this happens, and if these links are actually rejected or not?
On 2007-04-08 at 19:59:25, dragonstaff pooped back and forth... forever
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To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today. - Isaac Asimov |
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vasudeva
Bad Taste in your Mouth SSHOLEPosts: 4540 Registered: 3/8/2002 Offline
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4/9/2007 at 12:10 |
Crackalackin: dragonstaff: I also tend to '-' youtube links because there is a perfectly good forum for them to go into without cluttering up the front page.
That (partially) explains the fate of some links I submitted.
Why not '-' the links to web pages too, because there are perfectly good forums for them to go to without cluttering up the front page?
This does happen, though not as often as it might. Some things are worth sharing but aren't fit for the front page.
Videos are not text links and are weighed and consumed differently. For some reason they're all the rage right now -- hopefully temporary, probably not -- so I try to remind myself to be extra-out-of-body when judging those.
The perfect solution might be to bend over and accept the anonmob's attempt to turn LinkSwarm into LinkSwarm TV and just put all the videos in a separate section where if you want to see them, you go zombie it up, and don't see them otherwise.
Senor numbnuts, may I respectfully point out that the point is not the keep the front page clean, but to separate the pearls from pigshit?
Separating the pearls from the pigshit is good. So is keeping the frontpage clean of said pigshit, though. The bulk of youtube and related is pigshit, sadly. Luckily, since it's linear video and not flat text, you can't just quickly eyeball-scan it to find this out. You have to commit some portion of your life to finding out you just made a mistake in doing so.
Freakbass:
Ah yes, the "probably won't engender constructive debate" prophecy bears a little fruit.
dragonstaff: I have noticed lately that some links that have a 'rejected' icon next to the title have neither a list of voters from the AQ, nor an admin rejection reason in the link comments title box.
Example.
I was wondering why this happens, and if these links are actually rejected or not?
That happens when no reject reason is given. I occasionally don't give one, if the reason is obvious, and think the other admins do too from time to time. An unforeseen lesson about the Alpha Queue can be summed up as follows: if the Alphas don't get to see their own reject reasons, they won't leave one. This indicates that the reject reasons can be thought of less as records and more as graffiti.
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slippedhole> I am on to you and your evil intentions. I am the true protector of this website and am willing to do battle with you. |
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dragonstaff
Too old to Rock and Roll...too young to die SSHOLEPosts: 767 Registered: 8/19/2004 Offline
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4/9/2007 at 12:43 |
vasudeva: ... just put all the videos in a separate section where if you want to see them, you go zombie it up, and don't see them otherwise.
Great Idea. A Videoswarm page accessed through a link in the menu system. Perfect.
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The Grumpiest Alpha
To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today. - Isaac Asimov |
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coknurmowth
Crisco Fux SSHOLEPosts: 127 Registered: 10/20/2005 Offline
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4/9/2007 at 14:08 |
Alpha Queue can be summed up as follows: if the Alphas don't get to see their own reject reasons, they won't leave one. This indicates that the reject reasons can be thought of less as records and more as graffiti.
not being able to see them takes all the reward of posting something away. not that i need to be rewarded for writing a few words, but knowing that I won't be able to see comment anyway is usually a deciding factor in not leaving one.
Great Idea. A Videoswarm page accessed through a link in the menu system. Perfect.
there already is a section like that, it's called youtube. Sifting through all the random links is what makes LS fun. If you start regulating certain types of pages to certain sections of LS you end up with something unpleasant...like summer military camp.
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vasudeva
Bad Taste in your Mouth SSHOLEPosts: 4540 Registered: 3/8/2002 Offline
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4/9/2007 at 15:11 |
coknurmowth: not being able to see them takes all the reward of posting something away. not that i need to be rewarded for writing a few words, but knowing that I won't be able to see comment anyway is usually a deciding factor in not leaving one.
Ask not what LinkSwarm can do for you.
Great Idea. A Videoswarm page accessed through a link in the menu system. Perfect.
there already is a section like that, it's called youtube. Sifting through all the random links is what makes LS fun.
A decent-ish argument for the status quo, though considering youtube the ultimate standin for tv.linkswarm.com ignores the value of LS as a potential filter.
I know there are good things on Youtube. I've seen them. For every one decent thing I've seen, I've seen probably 8 worthless things, though. When I've just finished looking at something on youtube and I, out of a consistently morbid sense of curiosity, click on a "video response", I am always -- always -- filled with regret. Often pity. Sometimes revulsion. None of these ever in that "gotta show my friends" way, either. The Related Video searches are somewhat better, and while I'm not sure what algorithm is used to dictate Related-ness, popularity must have a lot to do with it. That's the same sort of filter that LS provides in general, and is the kind of mechanism that a LinkSwarm > Video section would provide. (Presumably.)
Anyway, so far this thread has had some good heartwarming stuff in it about the AQ, so if anyone's interested in discussing the value of web video in their emotional life, start a new thread on it, which I don't promise to not use to poll the populace on just how it is they manage to consistently find anything good on Youtube in the first place. This is probably going to be something I'm going to have to tackle eventually and I'm sure my methods are too impatient to get the goods on my own.
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slippedhole> I am on to you and your evil intentions. I am the true protector of this website and am willing to do battle with you. |
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middle_age_man
Mostly Harmless  SSHOLEPosts: 427 Registered: 1/11/2005 Offline
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4/9/2007 at 18:11 |
How about a separate submitting link and voting queue for video as well as a separate page all together? I usually don’t bother with the video content here.
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Lownotes
They all float down here.  SSHOLEPosts: 186 Registered: 4/23/2005 Offline
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4/12/2007 at 16:28 |
I don't think the (-) (X) options are working for repeats and stuff that has been around the net so long they need not be replayed here.
If I recognize them, I'll hit them with a (-). But, I don't always know if something is old. Also, I typically see the (X) option as throwing away my vote, because I doubt it's being used by enough people.
There should be some sort of option to label a submitted link as being old or a repeat, then that link's voting parameters change in some way.
Perhaps links labeled as such get shipped to admins for deletion.
Or maybe they take fewer (-) or (x) votes to die. |
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