MOMAD
That Weird Stain on the Ceiling   SSHOLE |
Posts: 449 Registered: 3/12/2002 Offline
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8/29/2006 at 20:28 |
After watching all 4 hours of this thing, I had some strong opinions. I saw this review in my local paper and was all "YES! EXACTLY!" So I thought I'd let this serve as my comment on the "documentary". It's a review by Star Parker from Scripps Howard News Service.
Katrina, Lies, and Videotape
Spike Lee took his cameras and crew to New Orleans to film a documentary about Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath. The four-hour production, which aired on HBO, is, unfortunately, about as destructive as was the disaster it depicts.
At a time when we need light and understanding, Lee has delivered darkness, anger, and hatred. Those who will be hurt the most by the distorted and untruthful picture that Lee has concocted are the poor blacks he purports to want to help.
It's clear that Lee did not go to Louisiana in search of truth. He went to Louisiana to carefully construct a documentary that would support the conclusion he had already reached. That conclusion: poor blacks suffered and died as a result of the indifference of a detached and racist Bush administration in general and President Bush in particular.
The film commits egregious journalistic sins of commission and omission, carefully selecting and editing footage to indict Bush, including only commentators who support the conclusions that Lee had already reached, and selectively omitting reams of information relevant to the complex truth of what actually happened.
Since Lee already knew "the truth", he didn't have much need to examine material such as "A Failure of Initiative", Congress' investigation into Katrina, which shows failure and breakdown at all levels of goverment - local, state, and federal. It also was of little interest to Lee that primary responsibility for disaster preparation and management is at the level of local and state government, not federal.
But New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin comes off in the production as just one cool dude. He shows up at regular intervals over the four-hour production, talking New Orleans jive and being one straight-foward sincere guy who was trying to do his job.
No mention is made of the hurricane simulations and emergency evacuation plans that he totally ignored. No reference is made to the famous picture of the parking lot filled with flooded school buses that Nagin chose not to use to evacuate residents in poor areas.
Central to the Katrina story is the failure of the levees. Indeed, Lee's film is called "When the Levees Broke." But who is responsible for ignoring the warnings over the years that the levees protecting New Orleans were inadequate? Bush? Of course not.
It was Louisiana's congresssional delegation that was responsible to ensure that their constituents' interests were being represented and that funds were being appropriated to fix sub-standard levees. But not a single Louisiana senator or congressman is ever mentioned or appears in "When the Levees Broke".
Perhaps most sad is that in four hours, Lee has nothing positive to say about America and Americans. No mention is made of the $700 million from private citizens and churches that were committed in the first few days of the tragedy. No mention is made of the thousands of homes across the nation that welcomed evacuees. No mention is made of the tens of thousands who have successfully re-built their lives.
Spike Lee clearly has little affection for the country that gives him free expression and has made him wealthy. He has produced a self-indulgent, deceitful and exploitive film about a tragedy. His message will give poor blacks more reasons to feel powerless, to feel lost, to feel that others bear responsibility for their lives, to hate, and to stay poor.
Btw, Star Parker is a black woman.
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wolfer
DARTH MENSES  Posts: 462 Registered: 12/1/2003 Offline
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8/29/2006 at 21:15 |
Fuck Spike Lee, I will never watch ANYTHING that racist bastard puts out. He isnt even from Louisiana and that was probably the first time he went there. I wonder how much of his money that he already had and made from this piece of shit film did he give to help the victims out? I cant believe people like him are rich. He needs to go eat a dick.
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mundhra
dread pirate neckbeard  SSHOLEPosts: 1662 Registered: 3/25/2002 Offline
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8/29/2006 at 21:30 |
i haven't seen it yet, but want to. i can't really respect this review with nuggets like "At a time when we need light and understanding," and Spike Lee clearly has little affection for the country that gives him free expression and has made him wealthy (ala 'you're lucky you live in a country that lets you protest the war so shut up').
the problem with documentaries is that everyone thinks they're 100% objective, or close to it. that's rarely the case.
Perhaps most sad is that in four hours, Lee has nothing positive to say about America and Americans. No mention is made of the $700 million from private citizens and churches that were committed in the first few days of the tragedy. No mention is made of the thousands of homes across the nation that welcomed evacuees. No mention is made of the tens of thousands who have successfully re-built their lives.
sounds like someone needs to make their own movie, replete with fluffy bunnies.
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vasudeva
Bad Taste in your Mouth  SSHOLEPosts: 4525 Registered: 3/8/2002 Offline
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8/29/2006 at 21:34 |
wolfer: Fuck Spike Lee, I will never watch ANYTHING that racist bastard puts out. He isnt even from Louisiana and that was probably the first time he went there. I wonder how much of his money that he already had and made from this piece of shit film did he give to help the victims out? I cant believe people like him are rich. He needs to go eat a dick.
Agree with all the above, except for the hard line about not watching his movies. She's Gotta Have It was entertaining ("fitty dolla sneakers and I GOTS no job") and Inside Man was pretty okay, though the video game cut providing over-the-top black-on-black violence was typically preachy.
As far as I can tell, he's every bit as bad as Michael Moore or Bush, in that he has an agenda and is willing to manipulate the truth in order to beat us over the head with his Big Important Message.
This movie showed every sign of being a huge vortex of spikelee-sermon-suck, and I wasn't looking forward to subjecting myself to four hours of it to see if it was worth it; I'm willing to take Parker's words as recommendation not to.
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mundhra
dread pirate neckbeard SSHOLEPosts: 1662 Registered: 3/25/2002 Offline
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8/29/2006 at 21:42 |
i thought 25th hour was good, but yeah
FUCK SPIKE LEE FOR GREAT JUSTICE
[/rahrahrah]
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But the whole of modern so-called civilized existence is an attempt to deny reality insofar as it exists. When did Don last look at the stars, when did Norman last get soaked in a rainstorm? |
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ghostrider
liberal exit  SSHOLEPosts: 2502 Registered: 7/29/2004 Offline
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8/29/2006 at 21:43 |
I thought he was great in those commercials where he was that tiny puppet dude.
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Clavis_Apocalypticae
Beautiful Puppet of Chaos  SSHOLEPosts: 774 Registered: 5/16/2004 Offline
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8/29/2006 at 22:28 |
ghostrider: I thought he was great in those commercials where he was that tiny puppet dude.
THAT'S TYRA BANKS, FOO!!!
I'm hoping to catch a repeat, or maybe Comcast will put it on InDemand. I haven't yet decided if it's worth the trouble to find a Torrent.
In general, I agree with the consensus her about documentaries; those who make them do so with preconceived notions, on subject matter they've prejudged, and usually with an agenda. That isn't to say there aren't some fine documentarians out there (Ken Burns), but they're certainly few and far between.
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dinozoa
SENATOR BABYHEAD  Posts: 319 Registered: 7/18/2004 Offline
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8/29/2006 at 22:52 |
I'm fairly pro-spike lee. I don't think he's a saint, but we live in a very WASP-washed society, where Lee's high levels of leftist polemic can be desireable because that voice would be underrepresented otherwise.
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tantrum
I'm a big boy now!  SSHOLEPosts: 474 Registered: 11/23/2003 Offline
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8/30/2006 at 02:57 |
I saw part 3 &4. A couple parts really affected me.
I don't really give a fuck if this documentary was biased or not. We should continue to be aware fellow Americans are still suffering. Anything that highlights that fact is O.K. in my book. Anything that creates a dialogue where subjective truths are tested has my all-important stamp of approval also.
Although, I did see an interview with Spike Lee in which he basically said, " I knew the kind of documentary I wanted to make, I just needed to find the right people to tell the story I wanted to tell." This struck me as highly suspect.
But fuck it, I'm sure he didn't have to look far and wide to find them. I have a feeling tales of tragic proportions are extremely easy to come by down there.
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InfectionConnection
SENATOR BABYHEAD  Posts: 100 Registered: 9/24/2003 Offline
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8/31/2006 at 22:21 |
i liked it.
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wolfer
DARTH MENSES Posts: 462 Registered: 12/1/2003 Offline
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9/1/2006 at 05:57 |
you dont think it was one sided? wheres the white families that lost there homes? I heard several families say they seen their car floating away...im sorry wasnt there a warning to leave the area 2 days before the bitch hit land? YES...If someone tells you to leave the area and you stay, i have no sympathy for you...If you have no way of getting out...ie:no vehicle, handicaped or just didnt have the resources to hear what was going on , i understand...but when your told "this is the largest fucking tornado to hit this country" then it time to fucking go.....dont wait and lose youe wife in a wave coming over your house and blame it on someone else............
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tantrum
I'm a big boy now! SSHOLEPosts: 474 Registered: 11/23/2003 Offline
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9/1/2006 at 18:30 |
wolfer: you dont think it was one sided? wheres the white families that lost there homes? I heard several families say they seen their car floating away...im sorry wasnt there a warning to leave the area 2 days before the bitch hit land? YES...If someone tells you to leave the area and you stay, i have no sympathy for you...If you have no way of getting out...ie:no vehicle, handicaped or just didnt have the resources to hear what was going on , i understand...but when your told "this is the largest fucking tornado to hit this country" then it time to fucking go.....dont wait and lose youe wife in a wave coming over your house and blame it on someone else............
Could it be that you are guilty of the same "one sided" outlook that you accuse Spike Lee of? Here's a smattering of offerings from the 1337 abysmal link comments you've submitted at LS to support my claim:
New Orleans is a dying whore
I was born and lived in Ozark, Ark till I was 10.
I thought he was a mexican, which would make him a catholic
She was being the typical 'the world owes me' blackness attitude. When the cop says get out of the car...you get out of the car. The world dont owe you shit.
Where the white couple with a black twin? I would like to see that dads face.
i notice when honkey and cracker are freely used but if you or I say something about it, we get laughed at and not taken seriously. I hear blacks talk about white people constantly as if im not standing there. I think they do it on purpose to see if I say soimething and one of these days i will.
^^^^Did you read any of this? It didnt say how to be black. It says how to be a nigger. If it walks like a duck and quakes like a duck, it must be a nigger.
This is more like a black kids desk. haha
Cause the black man wants to be named after such a destructive force. Damn soon white people are gonna have to call there own babies tyron and shwanika and shit. why cant a white baby be named black...oh lord i can hear it now.
I found a KKK folding knife when I was about 7 years old. I didnt know what it meant and I think my dad confiscated it when I wasnt looking.
i think us white folk need to have us a riot. just because thats what everyone else does when someone gets a guilty verdict...whos with me...sorry ghostrider your not included today....
if somebody prefers a nice white ass...why is it racist?... damn people get over it. If a mexican only likes mexican its ok. if asians only like asians its ok. if a black man only like black thats ok but if a white guy only like whites oh he is racist...give me a fucking break. i only prefer white girls...doesnt mean im racist..also like em skinny not fat...i prefer brunettes over blondes..quit pulling the race card out...
SOS...haha Stand up my white brothers we must be strong...and survive.
Perhaps the fact that you got beat down by a black cop puts a slight twist on the way you regard the whole Katrina mess?
I'm not dismissing your outlook of course. It's valid, I'm sure you own it. But I think you might do yourself a service to take a step back. Realize that in most cases, the victims of Katrina were people like you and I-fellow Americas at the very least, whose lives will be forever changed by a catastrophe noone really could have fathomed. Have some compassion for some folks that found (and still find) themselves in a fucked up situation.
I confess, my outlook may be a little biased as well. I aided in a Goverment funded response to the aftermath. I was in NO and the surrounding areas three weeks after the hurricane hit. I won't ever forget the level of despair and calamity.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is: We're all just a big culmination of our experiences. Our words and thoughts(for example, on art) are just reflections of the truths that we come across in life.
Is truth subjective? I'm not sure. I'm too concerned with my own perceptions to answer that question subjectively.
If that's the case for you also, then maybe it's too much to ask that others be arbitrary too.
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wolfer
DARTH MENSES Posts: 462 Registered: 12/1/2003 Offline
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9/1/2006 at 23:20 |
Im just saying that if he would have been more racially diverse in his documentary and shown both sides of the city that was destroyed and not pointed the finger at one person when there where several at fault. There would probably be more people wanting to watch it. I briefly watched it the other night just to see how one sided it was from, from what I was hearing. It was. I turned it. I do feel for all of those people that couldnt leave and was stuck there and lost lives. Its just so typical. That the black Mayor and the General did really outstanding jobs and all the white officialls where out golfing and fishing.
As for how I feel about blacks is something that grew on me from experiences of everyday life starting from when I was a kid. Not just from 4 years ago when I got my ribs kicked in. I could make you a list of personal experiances that made my judgement if you like. Calling me out on my prejudices has nothing to do with a documentary that obviously doesnt do much but teach more hate. The more im hated the more I hate.
EDIT: When I was 18 I had to go to Job Corps. This place is 98% black and most of them where crips and bloods sent there instead of jail. The year I was there I got into 1 fight. I was friends with almost all of them, WHY...Because they had to get to know me. We ate, slept, learned and partied together. They found out im a pretty cool person. BUT if they were walking down the street and didnt know me and we crossed paths...they would have said a damn thing to me and probably would have given me some kind of thug stare. Get my point.
On 2006-09-01 at 18:47:29, wolfer wistfully remembered Bowie's codpiece in Labyrinth
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tantrum
I'm a big boy now! SSHOLEPosts: 474 Registered: 11/23/2003 Offline
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9/2/2006 at 00:41 |
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be an advocate for this documentary. It has flaws. I watched the entire film. I felt it represented some truths. I felt it expressed views held by a large contigent of people in the Gulf. Should it be considered the definative documentary about Hurricane Katrina and it's aftermath? Probably not.
But dude, get back to me when you've seen the entire 4 episodes. You "briefly watch it the other night just to see how one sided it was". So you watched 10 minutes out of a four-and-a-half hour long documentary and you feel like you can fill in the rest of the blanks yourself. Cool. I'm not going to give much value to your opinion of it, but hey that's wolfer.
As for the the whole issue on how you feel about blacks, don't feel like you have to confess yourself to me. Everyone is guilty, or to look at it another way, innocent of how they see the world. Like I said before, I would never dismiss your experiences. They are real and valid. Maybe I was just suggesting that it would be nice if you dismiss your "judgement" for a moment and see things through someone else's eyes.
The same could said for Spike Lee, I guess. But I have a feeling he's not going to make a movie starring Larry the Cable Guy anytime soon.
STALEMATE.
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wolfer
DARTH MENSES Posts: 462 Registered: 12/1/2003 Offline
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9/2/2006 at 03:56 |
tantrum: Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be an advocate for this documentary. It has flaws. I watched the entire film. I felt it represented some truths. I felt it expressed views held by a large contigent of people in the Gulf. Should it be considered the definative documentary about Hurricane Katrina and it's aftermath? Probably not.
But dude, get back to me when you've seen the entire 4 episodes. You "briefly watch it the other night just to see how one sided it was". So you watched 10 minutes out of a four-and-a-half hour long documentary and you feel like you can fill in the rest of the blanks yourself. Cool. I'm not going to give much value to your opinion of it, but hey that's wolfer.
As for the the whole issue on how you feel about blacks, don't feel like you have to confess yourself to me. Everyone is guilty, or to look at it another way, innocent of how they see the world. Like I said before, I would never dismiss your experiences. They are real and valid. Maybe I was just suggesting that it would be nice if you dismiss your "judgement" for a moment and see things through someone else's eyes.
The same could said for Spike Lee, I guess. But I have a feeling he's not going to make a movie starring Larry the Cable Guy anytime soon.
STALEMATE.
I did watch some of it. I was not however trying to raise the ratings of his show. What I did see was one guy saying how he watched his car floating away and then trying to grab his wife and put her on the roof and she was swept away and he never seen her again. Now what is wrong with that story? He had a car and knew the danger of this before hand. He could have drove away from danger. But decided not to and then was pissed at the government for whatever reason.
I agree with the fact that it took way to long for these people to get help. Mayor Nagin had the resources and knowledge of the dangers of this thing and could have helped alot more people out, then what he did. I heard one victim stating how Nagin had only a small part in this whole thing, He wasnt the President or the Vice President or the Governer. No he was the mayor of New Orleans, It came down to him to take care of his city and he failed. What did he do afterwards he drove buses (the ones he couldnt find before Katrina) to Houston and surrounding cities picked up all his chocolate city population so that they could vote for him. Wow what a guy.
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vasudeva
Bad Taste in your Mouth SSHOLEPosts: 4525 Registered: 3/8/2002 Offline
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9/2/2006 at 13:46 |
Come on, white people. Fighting over the black is every bit as bad as fighting over the woman or the jew.
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ghostrider
liberal exit SSHOLEPosts: 2502 Registered: 7/29/2004 Offline
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9/2/2006 at 14:31 |
vasudeva: Come on, white people. Fighting over the black is every bit as bad as fighting over the woman or the jew.
Now i'm offended. Why would anybody fight over the women ?
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tantrum
I'm a big boy now! SSHOLEPosts: 474 Registered: 11/23/2003 Offline
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9/2/2006 at 17:37  |
Linkswarm doesn't care about black people.
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wolfer
DARTH MENSES Posts: 462 Registered: 12/1/2003 Offline
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9/2/2006 at 19:09 |
lol
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MOMAD
That Weird Stain on the Ceiling SSHOLEPosts: 449 Registered: 3/12/2002 Offline
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9/7/2006 at 17:17 |
Upon second viewing, I'm sure white people were as angry about everything as the black people were, it's just that when it came to opinions from people outside of things who weren't anywhere near New Orleans, it's mostly black people he sought out. I don't see why this whole thing should be applied to racism. It's a bad storm and bad levee construction and bad organization with FEMA. I don't like Bush either, but I think it was in pretty poor taste for Spike to include Kanye West's "George Bush does not care about black people" comment, along with all sorts of praise and cheers over it. That's just an easy way for Spike to show his racism, I don't think it really had anything to do with Katrina. Cheap shot.
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nocal
It's insane, this guy's taint  SSHOLEPosts: 820 Registered: 8/25/2004 Offline
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9/7/2006 at 18:04 |
Spoken like a true cracker |
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MOMAD
That Weird Stain on the Ceiling SSHOLEPosts: 449 Registered: 3/12/2002 Offline
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9/7/2006 at 22:38 |
Damn right, nigga!
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Acidburn
I am El Chupacabra  SSHOLEPosts: 800 Registered: 8/1/2004 Offline
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9/8/2006 at 02:11 |
My older brother is in the Coast Guard in New Orleans. And from what he has reported to me I have come to the conclusion that those dirty niggers can all die. My brother was sent in to rescue these helpless victims who had no means to help themselves"although an alert for all stupid niggers should get out of New Orleans now" was issued. He was shot at on 5 differant ocassions by "blacks,niggers,jungle bunnies,african americans" or what ever you want to call them. He was givin orders to pull out and go help the oil refineries get production back online. So all of these bleading heart "George Bush hates black people" types can go to hell. They tried there hardest to get in there but the police helped loot the stores, abandoned there post or let shit happen because they didn't care. The shootings is the only reason the Coast Guard did not go into New Orleans and evacuate. They brought it upon them selves trying to be cool and shit shooting at the people who was sent in to help out, but all they confirmed is niggers will be niggers regardless of the situation or disaster. Most of you get your news from the news. Great, but insider information will blow your mind about what went on there. Spike Lee"Nigger" is a worthless POS who does not deserver the airtime he gets. Half of my family lives there"all white" and they have returned to rebuild there houses. Yes they are rednecks but they are trying there hardest to rebuild with there insurance companies and not use FEMA handouts. Where the FEMA handout lines are 20 blacks for every 1 white person. I would kick a black preggo bitch into a flooded river before I lift a finger to help out due to past proven experiances. Peace the fuck out white boyz!
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You got Down Syndrome so bad you probably have up,left and right too.
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InfectionConnection
SENATOR BABYHEAD Posts: 100 Registered: 9/24/2003 Offline
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9/8/2006 at 19:55 |
you tell em jethro.
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vasudeva
Bad Taste in your Mouth SSHOLEPosts: 4525 Registered: 3/8/2002 Offline
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9/8/2006 at 20:34 |
Acidburn: NIGGERS NIGGERS NIGGERS
Surely even insider info has the taint of being only a handful of anecdotes that can't ever properly represent or describe a large heterogeneous group of people, though.
I'm not saying you can't enjoy letting a "few bad apples spoil the bunch" -- just be aware you're making a fairly huge logical error in doing so.
I mean, you realize that, right?
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