InfectionConnection
SIR BABYHEAD  Posts: 98 Registered: 9/24/2003 Offline
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5/24/2006 at 22:13 |
testing life-saving medical devices or drugs is the easy argument.
what about cosmetics?
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MollyMillions
Tender vittles  Posts: 11 Registered: 4/4/2006 Offline
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5/24/2006 at 22:33 |
I say reasonable testing is okay there too. Only in some distant, StarTrekish future will humankind stop trying to vainly anoint ourselves with random crap. As long as we are doing that on a regular basis I'm all about making sure my oils and unguents don't burn my eyeballs out.
The point about PETA/ animal rights group is that the DON'T see a difference between medical testing and cosmetic testing. To them it is all torture.
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dinozoa
SENATOR BABYHEAD  Posts: 319 Registered: 7/18/2004 Offline
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5/25/2006 at 18:33 |
From the animals point of view, it is all torture. I don't get your argument, you're saying that PETA has a pro-animal point of view, you're not saying if this is good or bad, and actually, I already knew that PETA has a pro-animal point of view.
What I want to hear, I guess from InfectionConnection is, what philosophical ideas lead you to believe that humans should be treated like animals (I mean animals should be treated like humans?)?
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LOki
Refusenik   SSHOLEPosts: 484 Registered: 3/8/2002 Offline
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5/25/2006 at 20:14 |
There is but one argument for vegetarainism I have ever felt had any merit what-so-ever: "I don't like the taste of meat--not even bacon."
As for cruelty to animals--animals have no rights. None what so ever. The crime in cruelty to animals is the crime of dehumanization that occurs in those who become desensitized to suffering. This is really not what happens in the laboratory, nor the fur industry, nor the meat industry (despite Upton Sinclair) as much as it happens in the school yard when kids set a cat on fire, it happens in puppy mills, it happens in dog fighting, etc...--PETA doesn't spend so many $thousands targeting them.
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InfectionConnection
SIR BABYHEAD Posts: 98 Registered: 9/24/2003 Offline
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5/26/2006 at 13:04 |
what philosophical ideas lead you to believe that humans should be treated like animals (I mean animals should be treated like humans?)?
I'm not sure i think "animals should be treated like humas" (though for several humans, i think the reverse should be considered).
Are you asking what drives compassion or what causes my compassion to be extended beyond my species?
My personal belief is that humans, though we are apparantly able to control and use other species, are not the only species on the planet and i think there is a danger in the long term (my kids, grandkids, etc) in thinking that we are the only species worth protecting.
I think our planet runs better when we are polite and considerate to in our daily life choices (in stop and go traffic, I let (sometimes nvite) people into my lane). I extend that to the creatures i come into contact with. I suppose the bottom line is it somehow satisfies my conscience to want to move in the direction of minimizing the suffering around me, and i justify that with my belief that everything around me has a value that ought to at least be considered and weighed.
I'll cop to some inconsistencies - I fish, and though i usually catch and release, i recognize i am causing a trauma on some poor dumb fish. I usually remove the barb from the hook to minimize damage when releasing, and i occasionally remove the enrire bend (making the whole exercize about standing in a stream in the mountains) but not always. I respect people who kill thier own food, whether in the back yard or in the woods, though i have zero respect for someone who does it for thrill or sport or trophy.
Bottom line is that i think i see an action that is either cruel or insensitive and i question the necessity or intent. There is no formula for that.
bottom line is i think its all about personal decisions.
We all go through this thing only once and for me its about trying to minimize any negative impact for future generations.
in a journal or forum here a cwhile back i was trying to figure out why people identify themselves as "conservative" or "liberal." I wonder if being "liberal" means i give a shit about something beyond myself.
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Sachsenpaule
SENATOR BABYHEAD  Posts: 165 Registered: 11/16/2003 Offline
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5/27/2006 at 22:06 |
The problem is, everybody here seems pretty solidly anti-PETA. I want to know, is there anybody here who is pro-PETA, and if so, can you explain your beliefs to me? I'm curious, and very split on the issue, and I really don't have the pro-PETA side of the argument.
Becourse most Members of LS are male. Caring is, beeing seen evolutionary, more a woman thing. Nurses. Stewardesses. (petas president and founder is female) The old job assignment is very near to our nature, but things change...
Well, we all know nature is just nature, it isnt good or bad.
Today i walked around and suddenly a hornet with a bug in her "hands" felt down, i watched her eat him. Nothing good, nothing bad, just Nature.
I once read about a physics experiment, as you know every objece has some degree of self-illumination (yea i know, that may seem like some kind of mystic or religios stuff "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." you can make fire, wizard).
In eggs, the amount of light produced is much greater in eggs from well held chickens.
And if this helps me getting better meat (and eggs, and fish a.s.o), why not.
Iam not feeling bad about this animal stuff.
But i didnt see it in real.
People cant threat animals like humans so long as they threat people like animals, human chauvism.
Do you remember the cow in "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"Part 2 ? (not sure whats the correct english name is)
"Hello iam your meal for today, what part of me do you want?"
Bad alternatives, hm?
Peta will fail so long as people earn more money by doing things against animal rights, plus i want to eat meat, peta propangades (nice word, iam not sure its even in the directory) vegan life style.
Plus most persons i meet with this kind of attitude were stereotype (old, young, male, female, most of them dont love animals, they hate people), the kind you see in talkshows, slow speaking, felted hair, this kind of stuff.
Support animal rights, not peta buy -good- products, they are more expensive, but if you can, do it. I dont know whether its an placebo or not, but you will taste it.
Support ego-generated animal rights 
On 2006-05-27 at 17:28:00, Sachsenpaule praised Jejus
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dinozoa
SENATOR BABYHEAD Posts: 319 Registered: 7/18/2004 Offline
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5/29/2006 at 22:04 |
what?
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vasudeva
Bad Taste in your Mouth  SSHOLEPosts: 4460 Registered: 3/8/2002 Offline
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5/30/2006 at 02:08 |
Nigga said FELTED HAIR, what more you need, nigga?
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