DonQuixote
DARTH MENSES  Posts: 641 Registered: 4/22/2005 Offline
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12/1/2005 at 19:59 |
In the vein of Tom Leykis' bit on the radio, I have decided to intall a session of "Ask The Atheist" here in LS.
Any question is fair game, but please don't try to convince me that there is a God and that I should ascribe to this or that religion.
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Facts about me -
-I do not truly believe in God.
-I can not call myself a christian.
-I will not pray for myself.
-I used to be Episcopalian.
-My faith was always a question, but it really left when my father got cancer and I started really digging for answers.
- I was confirmed, but I no longer wear my cross.
- I am not angry. I just don't see "it".
- I do have notions of what "good" and "bad" are, but they are based on social norms, probably just like everyone else.
- I am also a half assed pacifist (mainly because in fighting in the past I have learned that violence only gets people hurt).
- I like the TV show "House" because I really identify with the main character. (just a fun fact)
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If anyone else is an Atheist stand and be rocognized so you can answer questions as well. I know that I am no expert at anything.
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Here's a question my mom recently asked me, "How can you celebrate Christmas with us if you don't believe in God?"
My only answer is that Christmas (to me) is about family not the church or the gifts. Its the same as thanksgiving or the 4th of July or any Hallmark holliday where we all get together for some reason. Being together is what counts. Family and friends are what caounts. Any excuse to get together and enjoy eachothers company is a good enough holliday for me to "celebrate".
Your turn.
Peace
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ghostrider
liberal exit   SSHOLEPosts: 2502 Registered: 7/29/2004 Offline
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12/1/2005 at 20:05 |
Where do my prayers go ?
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Dumbskull
I'm assuming the position!  SSHOLEPosts: 1924 Registered: 4/22/2004 Offline
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12/1/2005 at 20:14 |
I suggest you get one of these swell suits.
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DonQuixote
DARTH MENSES Posts: 641 Registered: 4/22/2005 Offline
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12/1/2005 at 20:14 |
ghostrider: Where do my prayers go ?
To your ego. They help to satiate only you. Its basically meditating.
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Uart
DARTH MENSES  Posts: 1228 Registered: 3/5/2005 Offline
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12/1/2005 at 20:23 |
Not believing in God is chill with me, but how do you propose to answer the question of:
"Where did this fancy-schmancy 'world' thing come from?"
I require an answer that does not include god or any place where God can be inserted.
I'm not really religious myself, but I haven't been able to answer that question, and it's the one thing standing in my way to being an atheist as well.
Even if you use the big bang as the answer, it begs the question, "Why was there a big bang? / What caused the big bang?"
Matter doesn't just move/asplode itself -- something has to set it in motion, and if prior to the big bang nothing existed, then what set it in motion. Additionally, how did the matter that reacted in that big bang get there? |
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sunny77
SENATOR BABYHEAD  Posts: 230 Registered: 11/2/2005 Offline
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12/1/2005 at 20:28 |
sometimes I don't know whose forums are worse: mine or SFW.
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vasudeva
Bad Taste in your Mouth  SSHOLEPosts: 4525 Registered: 3/8/2002 Offline
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12/1/2005 at 20:36 |
Uart: Not believing in God is chill with me, but how do you propose to answer the question of:
"Where did this fancy-schmancy 'world' thing come from?"
I require an answer that does not include god or any place where God can be inserted.
I'm not really religious myself, but I haven't been able to answer that question, and it's the one thing standing in my way to being an atheist as well.
I can't answer it either.
Having sai that, I see no reason to then assume there must be a maker.
We obviously cannot wrap our heads around a sensible cause for creation; this is no reason to try to do so. You get what I'm saying? To default to assuming a creator is to commit this sort of logical fallacy:
"I cannot understand how the world was made. Therefore, it must be through some method that I can basically understand."
Even if you use the big bang as the answer, it begs the question, "Why was there a big bang? / What caused the big bang?"
As long as we're discussing logical fallacy...
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ghostrider
liberal exit SSHOLEPosts: 2502 Registered: 7/29/2004 Offline
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12/1/2005 at 20:38 |
Also that there was matter before the Big Bang, it was just this size------> .
All of it.
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ghostrider
liberal exit SSHOLEPosts: 2502 Registered: 7/29/2004 Offline
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12/1/2005 at 20:41 |
And why would the existance of god negate the Big Bang, anyhow ?
wrong thread ? I can't tell anymore.
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nocal
It's insane, this guy's taint  SSHOLEPosts: 820 Registered: 8/25/2004 Offline
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12/1/2005 at 21:35 |
A very very cool Rotten Library article about Jakob Bohme proposes some incredibly interesting shit.
For the tl;dr crowd: a German shoemaker is looking at a dish when the light reflecting off of it hits his eyes. He claims to have had at that moment a vision of god. He found that god is fractal and ever expanding with the knowledge that he collects about himself and that he created man to learn about himself.
Essentially, that explains everything -- god, us, the expanding universe -- well before we even knew that the universe was expanding. And all from a barely literate cobbler.
It's some crazy shit. |
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ghostrider
liberal exit SSHOLEPosts: 2502 Registered: 7/29/2004 Offline
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12/1/2005 at 21:37 |
So psychosis is enlightening, yes ?
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Uart
DARTH MENSES Posts: 1228 Registered: 3/5/2005 Offline
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12/1/2005 at 22:03 |
vasudeva: Having sai that, I see no reason to then assume there must be a maker.
We obviously cannot wrap our heads around a sensible cause for creation; this is no reason to try to do so.
It may have come off that way, but that wasn't my intention. I wasn't trying to argue that the lack of another explanation means there must be a God. However, using your own logic against you, the lack of an explanation means that we cannot know either way.
Therefore, Scientifically and Logically speaking, the answer to all this is to be an Agnostic.
Yada yada, BS logical fallacy BS. My point is: you can't use a theory like the Big Bang to disprove something that it doesn't in-fact disprove. What the big bang CAN disprove is the biblical accounts (there are actually two in Genesis) of creation -- it can't disprove the existence of a god.
Is the logic in that flawed? or you just didn't like that I said it "begs the question." Had I said, "that leads me to wonder..." would you have still tried to call me on a logical fallacy?
ghostrider: So psychosis is enlightening, yes ?
Timothy Leary might agree with that....
On 2005-12-01 at 16:04:24, Uart enjoyed furrysex |
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acheron
Cynical_Malcontent  SSHOLEPosts: 561 Registered: 4/29/2004 Offline
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12/1/2005 at 22:45 |
nocal: A very very cool Rotten Library article about Jakob Bohme proposes some incredibly interesting shit.
For the tl;dr crowd: a German shoemaker is looking at a dish when the light reflecting off of it hits his eyes. He claims to have had at that moment a vision of god. He found that god is fractal and ever expanding with the knowledge that he collects about himself and that he created man to learn about himself.
Essentially, that explains everything -- god, us, the expanding universe -- well before we even knew that the universe was expanding. And all from a barely literate cobbler.
It's some crazy shit.
I find this shit enourmously more attractive than any other religious theory I've ever heard. |
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nocal
It's insane, this guy's taint SSHOLEPosts: 820 Registered: 8/25/2004 Offline
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12/1/2005 at 23:41 |
I find this shit enourmously more attractive than any other religious theory I've ever heard.
I'm really curious to read more about this guy, because when I read that article, I was blown away. It makes perfect sense, even though the guy couldn't possibly have known some of that shit. |
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fastlane
Zombie scream style  SSHOLEPosts: 701 Registered: 2/7/2004 Offline
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12/1/2005 at 23:55 |
Devil got a good hold on you SFW.
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government_death_robot
DARTH MENSES  Posts: 938 Registered: 4/23/2004 Offline
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12/2/2005 at 00:39 |
I think the circumstances that caused you to make the leap toward atheism is comparable to a kid not getting his red bicycle for Christmas and then saying Santa is nonexistent.
I'm not saying your dad was a bicycle or anything, though.
MY QWESHUN
What do you do at family dinners when everybody bows their head to pray?
- I like the TV show "House" because I really identify with the main character. (just a fun fact)
Me, too. That show is pretty cool, huh?
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Wotak
You + Fava Beans = Yum  SSHOLEPosts: 794 Registered: 5/27/2005 Online
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12/2/2005 at 00:56 |
Excuse me while I point out a couple of important things:
Uart: What the big bang CAN disprove is the biblical accounts (there are actually two in Genesis) of creation -- it can't disprove the existence of a god.
There is no need to disprove the existence of a god or gods. The existence of a god or gods has never been proven to begin with.
Faith is the foundation upon which all religions are built.
Faith is a fancy word for believing in something that can't be proven.
I have no faith in a god because I believe in what makes sense to me. Explaining away everything we can't yet understand by saying; "a magical guy in the sky did it" is (in my opinion) just the lazy persons way of understanding life and the world around us. If scientists used this method of understanding the world, we'd still be living in the dark ages.
I would rather answer a question I don't know the answer to by saying; "I don't know". That leaves room for everyone to learn something.
Answering a question you don't know by saying "God did it", is not only an assumption... it's just too easy.
First show me proof that this god exists. Then I'll entertain understanding this gods powers and purpose.
I don't have to prove that an un-proven entity exists. That's just silly. You simply can not unprove an unproven.
Religion is a theory in my book... and it's a theory that holds almost no water.
The questions that drove me away from religion were:
1- Why did this supposed god, who is all good, create evil?
If he created everything, he created evil. He also allows it to continue to exist.
Why?
2- How can an entity that is all good, all loving and all powerful, allow himself to create evil?
For what purpose does evil serve an all good entity that loves us unconditionally?
3- How can a perfect entity make mistakes?
Look at the rule changes between the old and new testament, christians.
Remember, this god is in all places at all times. Therefore he was saying to dash children against rocks at the same time he was saying to suffer the child... and so many other things changed between the old and new testament. He rewrote his rules.
Why?
How can a perfect entity that created everything and is everywhere at the same time decide that he is wrong and suddenly change the rules in a new testament?
The whole idea of a perfect entity that is all powerful and all good and in all places at all times is debunked simply by comparing the old and new testaments.
ghostrider: Also that there was matter before the Big Bang, it was just this size------> .
A good question... Does anyone know?
SFW: Here's a question my mom recently asked me, "How can you celebrate Christmas with us if you don't believe in God?"
I have been asked this same question and I have answered it exactly as you have. For me, the holiday season is about keeping family close... not worshiping some dude on a magical cloud.
Vas: I can't answer it either.
Exactly. No one can answer it. It's a loaded question.
Sorry to barge in, but I saw a chance to contribute.
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Dumbskull
I'm assuming the position! SSHOLEPosts: 1924 Registered: 4/22/2004 Offline
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12/2/2005 at 01:10 |
When the first anatomically modern humans began to spread across the globe roughly 100,000 years ago give or take; they carried with them sacred totems and rituals for hunting, fishing, fertility, marriage and death. It is our great fortune that our early human ancestors were very curious about their surroundings and questioned their origins as they made their way on foot across continents and seas or else we would probably still be sitting on a grassy savanna picking and eating lice.
Every culture on earth has always had a religion that has included creation stories with male and female figures although not at all times human; great flood stories and stories of a divine creator coming to earth to walk among the people. Every human culture was established with religious rituals. A belief in a higher entity, deity, divine creator is one of the things that made us human.
The laws and codes of conduct for early religions came much later when human populations began to grow and people began to settle down and plant their feet as well as their seeds. Many people today rebel against the laws of their religions but still have faith.
People who consider themselves agnostics and/or atheists will (without fail) bust out in prayer to the divine creator they say they do not believe in when faced with a life threatening situation.
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DonQuixote
DARTH MENSES Posts: 641 Registered: 4/22/2005 Offline
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12/2/2005 at 02:16 |
Dumbskull:...
People who consider themselves agnostics and/or atheists will (without fail) bust out in prayer to the divine creator they say they do not believe in when faced with a life threatening situation.
Essentially you are saying there are no atheists in foxholes. Well I've been in life and death situations and I had no preayers, only fear. Does that make me more or less human? Does it really matter.
next...
GDR: your loss of faith = kid not getting bicycle
Close but not really, see I had been questioning the existance of god ever since I was 9. We were driving home from grandma's house one day and all of a sudden I realized that I was not going to be 9 forever, that I was going to die someday (I'm a late bloomer). I was crying my eyes out and my parents had no idea what the heck was going on. I didn't want to die because I had no clue what happened after that. I then began asking "What if God doesn't exist?". I was 9 and my mom told me that even just asking such a question could land me in hell. NOT HELPFULL. Why would God do such a thing? From then on I never had a solid faith and the death thing plagued me ever since. No answers only questions. In essence this afterlife and god thing was not a leap of faith I was ever willing to take. I got confirmed because that's what my parents wanted and I wanted the Gold Cross. Not because I believed. But I was 13 what'd you expect. After my father got cancer I did start going to church again. Searching for something anything. A feeling. I didn't expect a "sign". I just wanted comfort, and I felt nothing. I then began to really search for religion. Read alot of the big books, took theology courses for every religion I could find. I found no answers. This was not logical and I knew it when I was 9. The fairy tale was just that a fairy tale. Words. Except a whole lot more complicated than the Brothers Grim and perhaps even more malicious than the original tales could hope to be.
Q: What do you do when people pray at dinner.
Answer: I respect their belief and wish I could have it. It would be easier.
Wotak: Old testament vs New Testament contradictions etc etc. its a fairy tale to get you through the day
Actually the Gnostics (from the latin gnosis which means Knowledge or so I have read), believe that there were two gods. An evil one that created the universe and was all evil and shit, and a Good god that was the god of the new testament. They also believe that knowledge of the self would lead to a better understanding of the world around you and visa mastercard-versa. They were considered heretics by the original christians hence no Gnostic Gospels in the Bible created at the same place the Nicean Creed was created in the same meeting.
Point is this is another religion trying to explain something with belief, by using two gods to explain the discrepancies between the old and new testament.
UART: Big bang. What was there before?
VAS: I can't answer it either. Having said that, I see no reason to then assume there must be a maker.
I agree with Vas on this in that I have no answers for the big bang theory. I am even a little skeptical about some of Einsteins theories. Hell even Stephen Hawking just recanted his theory that black holes take in matter and then spit it back out in little tiny pieces.
However, I'm still not sure what you are asking? If its just a question of what existed before the big bang or how'd the big bang start then I'd say I dunno. But not knowing, as an old acting teacher of mine used to say, is a good place to be.
All-
I cannot prove that there is no God. I cannot prove that there is a God. No one can. Its an idea/belief that I don't get into arguments over.
I don't debate on the existance of God. It is fruitless because there are no real answers. It is darn near impossible to prove a negative especially when the negative is theory. Schrodinger might say that God both exists and doesn't exist until we open the box to see what's there.
Point is being an atheist is not a belief. Its not even an idea. Its simply is a state af thought whereby a person cannot conceive (some may say comprehend, but do people who like the idea of God really comprehend God?) of a creator.
Fastlane: The devil has a good hold on SFW
If I do not believe in God then how could I even start to believe in a devil?
The ideology or mythology surrounding the devil or The Morningstar or The Wing Shorned Angel is quite interesting. I knew a satan worshiper once who was a really nice guy. He said that satan worshipers that he hangs with don't go after cats and eat them they just think that if an Archangel such as Lucifer could conceive of a more perfect God than God then that thought in itself proves that God is fallable. They are nice stories but nothing more. Check out the Book of Enoch (I think thats the one) supposedly Dante based his "Inferno" on it. Its a romance novel for early christians and horribly graffic.
However, I do love the song "The Devil Went Down To Georgia" by the Charlie Daniels Band. Favorite line "I dun told you once you son of a bitch I'm the best that's ever been."
More questions please?
SFW
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Uart
DARTH MENSES Posts: 1228 Registered: 3/5/2005 Offline
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12/2/2005 at 03:04 |
Wotak: Excuse me while I point out a couple of important things:
Uart: What the big bang CAN disprove is the biblical accounts (there are actually two in Genesis) of creation -- it can't disprove the existence of a god.
There is no need to disprove the existence of a god or gods. The existence of a god or gods has never been proven to begin with.
Its a theory. Should we not test scientific theories because they haven't been proven? Lets stop having science then. |
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IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil
SENATOR BABYHEAD  Posts: 244 Registered: 3/17/2005 Offline
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12/2/2005 at 03:52 |
"Where did this fancy-schmancy 'world' thing come from?"
note: feeble minded peons of self-centered thought, please exit stage left, after the bang, preferably.
nowhere, everywhere! BANG!
actually, to be technical, you came into IT! and if any of the rest of us have any say, will leave it as well... [har har]
but the continuity of it's being is a big question and the answers are equally big.
First we have beingness, and that's phenomological if you think it's about your sense experience of it. I think therefore I am thinking--duh, er, AM, sorry Rene...
So that topic is bigger than asking origins, it's asking current location. Thought is that if we can plot current coordinates we can backtrack to the origin and then we have some facts!
that's a lie. Redshift and blueshift indicate that the big ol' universe is expanding at a billigillizillionpenta parsecs a nanosecond! faster than the national debt, bigger than a regan-era deficit! it's huge. unfathomably so--so why do I mention it? because it doesn't matter any more than the space between your fingernail and your finger. nothing. Puny human consciousness is unable to deal with it--so deal with that.
Oh and religion is a response to environmental pressures... damn it people. wake up!
Cultural Materialism.
big word, many silly-bells. neo-marxist, hegelian, and above all hard to grasp with the limited edumacation provided in the united snakes of americas.
Fuckit, read. SFW, you will like this and it will grow you some much needed-synapses, you too mr wotax, it's up your poop-stained alley.
god I love denegration!
http://www.faculty.rsu.edu/~felwell/Theorists/Harris/Index.htm
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nocal
It's insane, this guy's taint SSHOLEPosts: 820 Registered: 8/25/2004 Offline
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12/2/2005 at 04:12 |
Wawaweewaw! I expected questions more like this in my thread
1- Why did this supposed god, who is all good, create evil?
If he created everything, he created evil. He also allows it to continue to exist.
which are easier to answer than the ones LK asks me. Plus he's mean to me : ' (
God didn't "create" evil. If there exists good, it comes logically that something must exist to make it that way. Light wouldn't be light if you never saw darkness. But, you know, god COULD make us only capable of doing good. That would solve every problem in the world. Of course, he gave us the freedom to choose. So either we could be 100% good robots, or we can be free to choose either good or evil. I don't know about you, but forced goodness doesn't really sound like it's actually good. It just sounds like you would have no choice.
2- How can an entity that is all good, all loving and all powerful, allow himself to create evil?
For what purpose does evil serve an all good entity that loves us unconditionally?
Evil serves to give us a choice. God is a good parent. S/He says, "You know, I'm trying to turn you into a good wotak. So I will let you be responsible. But if you fuck up really bad and I don't think you're sorry...then there's really nothing I can do."
3- How can a perfect entity make mistakes?
Look at the rule changes between the old and new testament, christians.
Well, besides the interesting theory that god is fractal and learning constantly about His/Her/Its own nature, which would of course that god doesn't know everything, there is at least one explanation. Jesus, in the christian faith, came to establish a new law of the land. Old testament worked for mankind after the fall, but at some point, god decided that the Earth needed help. Deism says that god created the world and left it alone, so you might believe that he steps in now and again when we're fucking up. Or you might believe that god makes new rules whenever we're sufficiently too fucked up to follow them.
But either way, did you know that Jesus contradicts himself in the bible?
Remember, this god is in all places at all times.
Weeelll...kinda sorta. He is everything, really. He can't "be" anywhere, cuz he's just everywhere automatically.
The whole idea of a perfect entity that is all powerful and all good and in all places at all times is debunked simply by comparing the old and new testaments.
From the Rotten Library:
Everything from descriptions of God's nature and desire for the life of Christ to moral guidelines and prohibitions -- all are riddled with conflicting claims and assertions. Certainly this fact does not invalidate the Bible as a spiritual text. Inaccuracies or conflicting accounts do not invalidate the gems of historic and spiritual truth contained therein -- we need not throw out the baby with the bath water. However, such discrepancies indicate that we would be equally foolish to accept blindly each word or passage of the Bible as an absolute truth, the uncontestable word of God, unless of course we were trying to claim God has a sick sense of humor and is trying to lead us astray by confusing us.
Dumbskull: WORDS
I wish I could have said it that well.
SFW: WORDS
Some of what you said is also very good. You say the bit about the Gnostic gospels and then touch on the morning star, but kind of leave that unexplored.
The Gnostic gospels claim a "good" god and an "evil" god. "Evil" god creates the physical world. "Good" god gives us knowledge, which can enable us to reason that the physical world is bullshit. "Evil" god doesn't like that.
Lucifer means light bringer. So, one way of looking at Gensis is that we were given knowledge by a good god who paradoxically makes us suffer with that same knowledge.
If it sounds familiar it's because The Matrix took the concept and beat it into everyone's head. |
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SexNinja
the illest nigga  SSHOLEPosts: 1534 Registered: 10/28/2007 Offline
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12/2/2005 at 05:01 |
People who consider themselves agnostics and/or atheists will (without fail) bust out in prayer to the divine creator they say they do not believe in when faced with a life threatening situation.
Then those people are complete posers and worthy of complete ridicule and scorn.
Emotak: There is no need to disprove the existence of a god or gods. The existence of a god or gods has never been proven to begin with.
Faith is the foundation upon which all religions are built.
Faith is a fancy word for believing in something that can't be proven.
I have no faith in a god because I believe in what makes sense to me. Explaining away everything we can't yet understand by saying; "a magical guy in the sky did it" is (in my opinion) just the lazy persons way of understanding life and the world around us.
Exactly. The whole faith mantra is the main reason I have disavowed the religion I was "brought up" in. I will do so to all others who present themselves as an alternative to rational thought in favor of the quick satisfaction of my immediate emotional needs by way of an assurance that a "higher power" will magically make it all better.
If scientists used this method of understanding the world, we'd still be living in the dark ages.
Ah, been following the stories on creationism ID, have we?
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Crackalackin
SENATOR BABYHEAD  Posts: 387 Registered: 7/19/2004 Online
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12/2/2005 at 06:06 |
nocal: A very very cool Rotten Library article about Jakob Bohme proposes some incredibly interesting shit.
HOLY FUK nocal. This is the most profound thing I have ever read.
J would give you all my rad points right now if only there was a way.
PM me your address, and I shall send you beer. I think I owe Kahuna some beer too for some awesome link back in the day.
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jwalker
Token Discordian  SSHOLEPosts: 952 Registered: 8/6/2005 Offline
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12/2/2005 at 06:33 |
What I find really remarkable is that every culture to have evolved (can a culture "evolve"?) has had some form of religion. Of course, it could be that at the dawn of civilzation, that was the next logical step in the formation of a power elite, which has since been replaced completely by secular government making religion an anachronism. But then I have known some very intelligent people who embrace God and religion; and I won't dismiss them out of hand just for seeing something I can't.
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DonQuixote
DARTH MENSES Posts: 641 Registered: 4/22/2005 Offline
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12/2/2005 at 06:38 |
IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil: Lots of misplaced angst.
I am fully aware of all theories pertaining to the big bang and any corralaries thereof. You are a regular J.P. Sartre. That bit of a ham handed reference to Descartes was probably your brightest point. "I think therefore I am." is one of the most overused and misunderstood philosophical "isms" of all time. Remeber, Descartes was also a mathmatician (created the CARTesian plane). He was basically doing an algebraic proof for existance. Actually, another fun fact about me, well really about my wicked smaht bro, he figured out a way to make imaginary numbers fit on a cartesian plane!!! In highschool!!! It begged the question of a fourth dimension as far as physics goes. But what's the point? What if we don't exist? What if we are all just living in somthing's dream? What if we do exist, but we live in a universe inside an "atom" underneath the fingernail of a giant? You can "what if" yourself till cold fusion is made workable, because there are no true (ie fact) answers.
Your link was somewhat interesting. A bit off topic though. May I suggest in turn that you read all of Joseph Campbell's works. Start with "The Hero With A Thousand Faces" and then just keep picking books up as you can find them. That might stimulate some much needed thought on the subject at hand.
Oh and on a side note I love that film "Groundhog Day". Bill is a genious.
"Too early for flapjacks?"
Nocal: werdz - I could go on and on about early christianity and the gnostic verses the coptic gospels. And don't get me started on the idea of "The Devil". The mythology surrounding Lucifer and the war that lead to his fall from grace is so intricate and fun...I guess thats why we have so many modern films that focus on just those myths.
Anyhoo, I asked you a question in your forum about Christianity. It was the one about James the Just and Jesus' other siblings. I have many theories as to why they seemed to fall off the face of the earth after their miniscule mentions in the traditional gospels, but I'd like to hear your point of view. Where is our last Scion? Why does the Koran mention Jesus's family more than the Bible?(Too bad Dogma already made a mockery of the last scion thing, loved the film though) And one for the road...Mary of Magdelin, why is everyone so hard on her? She seems fine in the Bible. No mention of being a whore there. Why dash the ideal of the sacred feminine? Simply chauvenism, or is it more cunning than that, trying to oust other religions were they? Why? Why force ones own views/beliefs on others? Why "Spread the Good Word" and be a missionary? Are other cultures religions not as worthy of respect as the Christ's?
SexyNinja: Werdz Your avatar is still one of the scariest in the swarm although Wotak's is starting to creep me out. You be keepin it real fo sho. BTW - I despise Intelligent Design. Flying Spaghetti monster it is then eh?
Please Note: I have nothing but the highest respect for Jesus' teachings as well as The Bhudda and lesons from the Upanishads and even the Koran/Big Mo. My lack of faith is not ment to be a "fuck you" to anyone else's faith. Believe what you must, I just don't see it. If I did then I'd ascribe to some religion and be a happy person, but I don't. Wish there was a pill for that!
To All - Keep it coming. The more tidbits of knowledge make us all more powerful. If you take it as a given that knowledge = power. It seems if it weren't for guns and money we'd be the most powerful website in the multiverse. (Just kidding, there is no multiverse HA)
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DonQuixote
DARTH MENSES Posts: 641 Registered: 4/22/2005 Offline
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12/2/2005 at 06:40 |
dreymers: What I find really remarkable is that every culture to have evolved (can a culture "evolve"?) has had some form of religion. Of course, it could be that at the dawn of civilzation, that was the next logical step in the formation of a power elite, which has since been replaced completely by secular government making religion an anachronism. But then I have known some very intelligent people who embrace God and religion; and I won't dismiss them out of hand just for seeing something I can't.
A big huzzah for dreymers. I totally and utterly concur.
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dragonstaff
Too old to Rock and Roll...too young to die  SSHOLEPosts: 765 Registered: 8/19/2004 Offline
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12/2/2005 at 07:23 |
First up- Go Here for all the answers.
Now for some serious stuff.
I also have trouble reconciling the concept of a benevolent and omnipotent God with all the shit that happens in the world. Wotak's point about 'suffer the children' and 'bash them on rocks' also makes me wonder, unless the idea is to bash them on rocks to make them suffer, and I don't think it is.
As far as the good and evil thing is concerned, how can you have one without the other? For every positive, there must be a negative, if only for comparison.
Whilst I am not trying to derail this thread, I do find it refreshing that SFW has finally started to leave the fucktardedness behind and make some damn fine contributions of late. Excellent work SFW.
PS Robert Heinlein had the real answer to the God question in Stranger in a Strange Land - " Thou Art God " ...Think about it.
On 2005-12-02 at 03:10:23, dragonstaff enjoyed furrysex
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The Grumpiest Alpha
To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today. - Isaac Asimov |
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magicchex
Fuckin' your bitches and stealin' your cars since 1985.  SSHOLEPosts: 503 Registered: 1/5/2005 Offline
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12/2/2005 at 08:08 |
Dumbskull:
People who consider themselves agnostics and/or atheists will (without fail) bust out in prayer to the divine creator they say they do not believe in when faced with a life threatening situation.
I'm an atheist and this is not true.
Thanks for playing.
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shitbox
my balls your chin, get used to that idea  SSHOLEPosts: 950 Registered: 1/9/2005 Offline
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12/2/2005 at 09:40 |
fastlane: Devil got a good hold on you SFW.
Obviously, he LOVES the fox show House.
I want to kill myself when just accidently viewing the 15 second tv plug, gawd. Speaking of which, something DOES NOT EVOLVE from nothing. Thats my take on things.
So, do you celebrate Christmas? Wait, ill answer that for you, since scociety does and social norms dictate your spirituality I would say yes...am i wrong?
I really hope Frans asks you a question, yes?
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"Kill him! Kill the fuckin' indian! What am I watching here two fuckin' fags!?"
Rodney Dangerfield as Ed Wilson
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