nocal
It's insane, this guy's taint   SSHOLE |
Posts: 833 Registered: 8/25/2004 Offline
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3/19/2005 at 20:27 |
So I heard good things about this series, where Penn & Teller enlist the help of experts and determine the validity of certain claims. I just watched the one on recycling and they determined this:
1) It's mostly Bullshit, because:
a) it actually uses more energy, creates unnecessary and shitty jobs, creates pollution, and we will never run out of landfill space in the conceivable future
2) ONLY recycling aluminum is useful because:
a) paper is (mostly) made from trees grown on tree farms, so we are not clear cutting forests (and there are three times as many trees today as there were in 1920)
b) plastic is very fucking cheap to make, and recycled plastic generally goes into making shitty products that can be made better with regular materials
3) Modern landfills conform to strict standards, and the largest (in Whittier CA, which is basically a landfill anyway) uses the natural gas produced by rotting material to power 60,000 homes; and when landfills are covered, you can plant shit on them and it will grow well because of the richness of the soil.
They tracked the modern recycling movement to one man and one report, where he basically made shit up: he claimed that we would run out of landfill space if we didn't recycle, etc.
Now, this is all QUITE surprising to me, who felt like a douche for not recycling and whose father started the first recycling center in northern CA back in his hippy days. It is a fucking interesting show and it has a bunch of topics, I'm wondering what opinions on this are
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government_death_robot
DARTH MENSES  Posts: 953 Registered: 4/23/2004 Offline
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3/19/2005 at 20:54 |
No, really, that's interesting.
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bwned. |
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magicchex
Fuckin' your bitches and stealin' your cars since 1985.  SSHOLEPosts: 561 Registered: 1/5/2005 Offline
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3/19/2005 at 21:43 |
i saw them live when i was a wee lad, they did some pretty badass shit. |
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Lefen
I think Clavis wins my heart <3  SSHOLEPosts: 908 Registered: 9/16/2003 Offline
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3/19/2005 at 21:59 |
government_death_robot:
this is my new favourite animated gif 
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vasudeva
Bad Taste in your Mouth  SSHOLEPosts: 4618 Registered: 3/8/2002 Offline
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3/20/2005 at 04:22 |
A couple living spaces back, I lived in one of those places where they demanded that you sort all your shit into various bins, all of which you were required to provide of the right shape and color. So I did, faithfully seperating glass from cans from plastic from paper, etc etc.
Then one day I happened to look out and saw the trash guy just dumping all the shit into the same bin.
To this day, I use that as a behavioral model for also not giving a fuck.
Also, I like to blame the recycling rage on the trust-fund college-kid neo-hippie movement, which just loves to have causes, and also likes to bitch, and also likes to dance retardedly to boring music,
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LORDKAHUNA
Don't make me fuk your moustache  SSHOLEPosts: 1691 Registered: 8/5/2003 Offline
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3/20/2005 at 04:28 |
I've always doubted the effectiveness of recycling, I too have adopted the "don't give fuk" approach to this.
The only time I toss shit into the blue bin is when Mrs Kahuna gives me the gears about it.
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never underestimate how many women have basically no self-esteem to speak of |
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BeachGoat
DARTH MENSES  Posts: 431 Registered: 10/31/2003 Offline
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3/20/2005 at 19:54 |
Four/Fifths of all our trash goes into the recycle bin (mostly beer bottles) and yet we pay a small fortune for trash pick up. They turn around and make a profit from our recyccleables, plus hear in CAl they charge a mandantory deposit that is NOT refunded at the recycling centers. They pay weight value only, but at the store its a nickle a pop.
We're so used to getting screwed in California......it makes Bush's bullshit seem less shocking, but no more tolerable.
Still, I was out there on the first Earth day & have been recycling since, even when no one else I knew did. Its not just for binpickers, winos, & the homeless. Its also for the elderly,youth groups, & churchs.
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dragonstaff
Too old to Rock and Roll...too young to die  SSHOLEPosts: 787 Registered: 8/19/2004 Offline
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3/20/2005 at 20:28 |
We have a mandatory 5c deposit on drink containers including flavoured milk cartons that is only paid at recycling depots, which are so few and far between that most people don't bother to claim it.
Household rubbish is done either in 2 bins ( one for rubbish, one for recylables like glass, cans, and some plastic) or a split bin which is what we have. I tend not to bother because the split bin gets picked up and emptied into the one compactor truck and dumped. No-one is that desperate for a shitty paying job that they will spend their day sorting through the contents of these to seperate the good stuff from the used condoms and shitty diapers etc. that makes up the rest of the load.
Recycleing done this way is just another way for the cynics in local government to seem to be doing the 'right thing' at a time when it is popular. The serious greenies sort out their own systems and look after themselves.
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The Grumpiest Alpha
To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today. - Isaac Asimov |
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Pchimp
SENATOR BABYHEAD  Posts: 159 Registered: 6/18/2003 Offline
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3/20/2005 at 21:24 |
Yeah, it seems that recycling is for now, not very economically feasible -- hence the hefty fees that CA levies on it's citizens. Though I have a feeling that Penn & Teller's presentation is itself skewed -- the impetus behind the show is to pull back the veil and scream "Aha!!" -- a lot of environmental science is bullshit. The Skeptical Environmentalist is a good read for those interested in the topic. It swings the pendulum a little too far towards the "don't worry about it; there's not really a problem and even if there was those magnanimous scientists and capitalists will invent some nifty technology to heal the scars we are creating today" camp; but if you want to balance your outlook, give it a look.
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suncrafter
Tender vittles  Posts: 9 Registered: 2/5/2006 Offline
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4/27/2006 at 05:15 |
I too saw that show. I felt like such an ass for believing in that recycling shit for so long. But even though the argument against recycling in valid - don't expect change anytime soon:
- More people recycle then vote.
- More people believe in recycling then believe in god!
It's going to take a LOT to kill THIS big lie!!!!
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freakbass
SENATOR BABYHEAD  Posts: 128 Registered: 2/12/2006 Offline
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4/27/2006 at 05:37 |
lots of their presentations are skewed in my opinion and some of their experts are a joke, but that doesn't mean it's not an enjoyable show. I laughed my ass off the first season.
their BB boards are pretty cool as well, at showtime.com or wherever.
One of the funniest shows I saw was the one about the fen shui experts. they went to one high dollar expert, who re-arranged the house, then they had another come after (but didn’t tell him about the first) who said 'the energy is all wrong!' and rearranged it, then another and another. HAHAHA
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Uart
DARTH MENSES  Posts: 1228 Registered: 3/5/2005 Offline
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4/27/2006 at 12:57 |
in NJ we have REQUIRED recycling. In Theory.
I still don't give a shit though. |
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ghostrider
liberal exit  SSHOLEPosts: 2525 Registered: 7/29/2004 Offline
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4/27/2006 at 14:12 |
All of my recycled cans and bottles are filled with cigarette butts.
HAHAHAHAHAHA fuck the environment.
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MstrLance ~
I think you accidentally drew a hexapus.
Dent ~I did, didn't I. |
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Acidburn
I am El Chupacabra  SSHOLEPosts: 809 Registered: 8/1/2004 Offline
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4/28/2006 at 02:48 |
Recycling is shitty. I could care the fuck less about the enviroment. My itty bitty contibution won't make a damn differance to this planets health. I still toss shit out the window, dump unwanted chemicles in the desert. When the hippies trying to save the earth stop driving there volkswagon beatle that was banned in this country because it couldn't meet EPA air standards I might sort my garbage.
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No you can't have my rights. I'm not through with them!
You got Down Syndrome so bad you probably have up,left and right too.
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This is Rabbit. and it kills everyday.
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Mofo
dont give a shit  SSHOLEPosts: 442 Registered: 2/8/2004 Offline
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4/28/2006 at 05:15 |
These are the same people that claimed second hand smoke wasn't bad for you. Based off of research done by Phillip Morris.
On 2006-04-28 at 00:15:57, Mofo praised Jejus |
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freakbass
SENATOR BABYHEAD Posts: 128 Registered: 2/12/2006 Offline
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4/28/2006 at 05:52 |
Most of the second hand smoke studies can barely be called science. I was in a class where we reviewed a bunch of them in college... all garbage barely worthy of wiping your ass with.
I hate smoking, don't date smokers, had severe asthma as a kid and was pulled out of many a smoke filled restaruant unable to breath, but I have yet to encounter any valid data linking second hand smoke to any disease.
Maybe the waitress who has asthma or is allergic to it will have problems, but what the fuck is she doing working at a bar? She should start hooking..
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dinozoa
SENATOR BABYHEAD  Posts: 319 Registered: 7/18/2004 Offline
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4/28/2006 at 08:26 |
freakbass:
I think there's not so much a lack of data linking second hand smoke to disease, but a plethora of data linking air pollution to lung diseases, and maybe not so many studies on actual second hand smoke.
I can relate. A common pollutant in big cities like LA is NOX emissions. Back in the day, 80s, a friend of mine was a lab rat in a study where one population breathed a mixture of 70% nitrogen and 30% oxygen (or whatever the ratio is for pure air) and another population breathed the same, but with NOX compounds introduced at a proportion consistent with the amount present in the LA atmosphere. The consequence was one population, after several months, had healthy pink lungs, while the other had gross dirty, sometimes infected lungs.
I would argue that air pollution is a major factor in respitory illness, and it's naive to assume that second hand smoke doesn't have any contribution to respirtory illness. Also, a basic search of 'second hand smoke' at pub med would be a good preliminary to this discussion.
Lastly, I don't get why you admit that second hand smoke was a factor in your asthma, but then argue that second hand smoke is not linked to any disease. Are you saying asthma is not a disease, or are you saying that your case is the only legitimate, scientifically verifiable case of asthma being linked to second hand smoke?
In conclusion, I think your whole argument is a backlash to the War on Drugs and Smoking, which, while it may be effective against pictures of black lungs with "look what smoking does to a healthy" lung captions, doesn't have much support in the medical community.
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shitbox
my balls your chin, get used to that idea  SSHOLEPosts: 979 Registered: 1/9/2005 Offline
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4/28/2006 at 08:40 |
Shows ok, I like the gun control episode.
I too have the 'i dont give a fuck' attitude when it comes to recycling.
Lastly, If a fat fuck semi-political comedian and his gay-mute lover are making you suddenly change your life long personal convicitions, there may be something wrong with you. But hey, change is good....right?
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nocal
It's insane, this guy's taint SSHOLEPosts: 833 Registered: 8/25/2004 Offline
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4/28/2006 at 14:33 |
I did a search in PubMed out of curiosity, and it seems to be pretty clear what the exisiting research shows. One study does claim that ambient oxygen is actually worse than second hand smoke.
At the same time, it is pretty difficult to do a controlled study on second hand smoke, as that would involve exposing people to something that is, at best, not good, and at worst, cancerous. |
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Acidburn
I am El Chupacabra SSHOLEPosts: 809 Registered: 8/1/2004 Offline
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4/28/2006 at 15:34 |
If we recycle and don't use land fills then where are the Mexicans gonna get ther clothes and furniture
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No you can't have my rights. I'm not through with them!
You got Down Syndrome so bad you probably have up,left and right too.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
This is Rabbit. and it kills everyday.
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Uart
DARTH MENSES Posts: 1228 Registered: 3/5/2005 Offline
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4/28/2006 at 17:01 |
shitbox: Lastly, If a fat fuck semi-political comedian and his gay-mute lover are making you suddenly change your life long personal convicitions, there may be something wrong with you. But hey, change is good....right?
Additionally, he's also one of the worlds biggest cockmonkies. <-- that is straight from the mouth of someone who had to work with him a few years ago. |
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freakbass
SENATOR BABYHEAD Posts: 128 Registered: 2/12/2006 Offline
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4/28/2006 at 19:04 |
Dinoza,
How can you know my whole argument when I only wrote 3 sentences? Isn't that just a bit presumptuous? 
I think that second hand smoke is a lung irritant when highly concentrated, but do not believe that it in itself can CAUSE any diseases. And I have yet to encounter data which proves otherwise. Personally, I have had much more serious problems with chemicals in the work place than smoke. Bleach and a variety of cleaners have brought much more misery than smoke.
in my opinion, second hand smoke is little more than an odor, like a fart.
Also, Incense is way harsher on my lungs than second hand smoke.
If they are to ban second hand smoke, they should also ban incense, scented candles, Ajax, and farts. Then what? Let's just ban everything, eh??
Just my $ .02
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Be careful what you pretend to be because you are what you pretend to be.
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IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil
SENATOR BABYHEAD  Posts: 244 Registered: 3/17/2005 Offline
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4/29/2006 at 03:43 |
So the big fat cockmonkey is a bit heavy-handed.
GEEZ what a surprise.
Their PETA disinformation was directly culled from another place--and it was really just putting things into an alternate view.
Spin. In the guise of knowledge.
Personally, I don't care for the profit motives around recycling--however I also don't believe we have ANY infinite resources, unless you count the vast vaccums of space. Landfills are nasty things and there is no need to say, oh well when that one fills up we will just make another trash-heap over there.
The biggest problem isn't draconian laws forcing recycling, the pollution, the profiteers, the vapid hippies, it is really the sheep like obsequience of the consumer culter we have created and care little to change.
Just layer more control structure and eventually the sheep will do the right thing---WR0nG! Sterilize the dumbfucks and keep them from breeding more mendacious fucktards.
Smoking is a good start. It only lessens their lifespan and they still are at pains to come to terms with the simple fact that inhaling polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons and micron-sized ash-particulate is not good for you. Really, it's not any good for your wet sack of a body to inhale combustion byproducts--and if you don't believe me, ask yourself why your lungs go into total defense mode, think they are trying to tell you something? Maybe trying to keep your stupid ass alive?? Eventually they give up like some old hooker who no longer flinches when a donkey-cock gets shoved up her asshole.
The power of adaptation! Behold! don't change anything.
--oh and nocal, plastic requires non-renewable resources to be produced, namely OILs and petrochemicals that really are a bitch to get out of Arab-country.
Conservation is better than recycling.
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Mofo
dont give a shit SSHOLEPosts: 442 Registered: 2/8/2004 Offline
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4/29/2006 at 03:53 |
If they are to ban second hand smoke, they should also ban incense, scented candles, Ajax, and farts. Then what? Let's just ban everything, eh??
There's a difference. incense, scented candles, Ajax, and farts don't produce nearly as much smoke, and there isn't any way in which you are supposed to use that involve inhaling them directly. |
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dinozoa
SENATOR BABYHEAD Posts: 319 Registered: 7/18/2004 Offline
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4/29/2006 at 03:58 |
I think the idea behind recycling is, and always has been, that if we aren't being hit by a resources crunch now, then we will be, and the more infrastructure we have in place to deal with it, the better it will be.
If an economy is healthy, then a recycling program will always be unprofitable. When we have to worry about landfill space and securing oil to make plastics, and recycling becomes a cheap alternative, that's no good.
I thought this was pretty much a no brainer. I think the biggest problem with the Pen and Teller bullshit is how they frame the issue of recycling in a very money oriented, "is it profitable, is it necessary" idealogy. It's like claiming that second hand smoke is whatever, by appealing to a civic sense of prudence and modesty. You can make a rational and reasonable argument, from your weirdo standpoint, but it's not going to be true.
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I disagree. |
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Mofo
dont give a shit SSHOLEPosts: 442 Registered: 2/8/2004 Offline
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4/29/2006 at 19:22 |
They are Libertarians, so money is pretty much all they care about. |
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