ghostrider
liberal exit   SSHOLE |
Posts: 2525 Registered: 7/29/2004 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 02:41 |
I wouldn't stand in that line for anything. As far as I interpret things, this will just cause more upheavel amongst the three major factions (if that's possible). If it really happens, could any elected government be anything but a psuedo-legitamate puppet state? I fear that when and if we withdrawl troops, we'll leave the place far more uncertain and unstable than when we first went in, and I don't mean that as argument to stay. Bush seems like he's sending two subtle messages. The media is filled with hints that say both that we'll be withdrawing soon, and that we won't be leaving anytime soon. I wish I didn't have to give a fuck about any of these countries of late, but we're beyond that point.
We done dug ourselves a nice hole.
[Edited on 27/1/2005 by ghostrideryyz]
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MstrLance ~
I think you accidentally drew a hexapus.
Dent ~I did, didn't I.
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vasudeva
Bad Taste in your Mouth  SSHOLEPosts: 4618 Registered: 3/8/2002 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 13:53 |
They're freedom haters.
We're freedom lovers.
Therefore, we have to defend our idea of freedom in their land.
They are attacking democracy itself.
We are upholding democracy itself.
Therefore we have a job to do to keep our idea of democracy alive in their land.
You see? It's all very simple.
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slippedhole> I am on to you and your evil intentions. I am the true protector of this website and am willing to do battle with you. |
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ghostrider
liberal exit SSHOLEPosts: 2525 Registered: 7/29/2004 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 14:10 |
That's what I was looking for. I feel much better now.
Enduring Freedom in the mutherfuking house, y0
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MstrLance ~
I think you accidentally drew a hexapus.
Dent ~I did, didn't I. |
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acheron
Cynical_Malcontent  SSHOLEPosts: 567 Registered: 4/29/2004 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 14:33 |
Top estimates are that 25% of Iraqis will go to the polls, while the majority of sunnis will boycott and many shiites, kurds, and christians will stay at home because they're afraid of getting killed. In short, not a legit election whatsoever.
I predict allawi to win because he has the most publicity and money.
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I'm an INTJ. This explains why I'm alternating between silence and judging you. |
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chronos
Tender vittles  Posts: 33 Registered: 11/15/2004 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 15:48 |
I wonder what the odds in Vegas are for Allawi's post-election survival. I think I'll put my money on the carbomb.
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embrace the random. |
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dent
Slipping it into the wrong hole any chance I get  SSHOLEPosts: 917 Registered: 10/20/2004 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 17:49 |
I wonder what this topic is doing here
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acheron
Cynical_Malcontent SSHOLEPosts: 567 Registered: 4/29/2004 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 17:58 |
Ask Ghost
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I'm an INTJ. This explains why I'm alternating between silence and judging you. |
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freakmachine
Web Fucko Extraordinaire  SSHOLEPosts: 596 Registered: 4/15/2004 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 18:05 |
This toipc is in the wrong category, mabe it should be moved to the "archives" just like at TNFZ. |
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ghostrider
liberal exit SSHOLEPosts: 2525 Registered: 7/29/2004 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 18:08 |
This topic is here because I put it here. I am concerned about world events, and I don't have any pictures of my cousin in a bathing suit, so this will have to do
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MstrLance ~
I think you accidentally drew a hexapus.
Dent ~I did, didn't I. |
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Pchimp
SENATOR BABYHEAD  Posts: 159 Registered: 6/18/2003 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 18:53 |
Where's the clicky? |
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ghostrider
liberal exit SSHOLEPosts: 2525 Registered: 7/29/2004 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 19:05 |
good references
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MstrLance ~
I think you accidentally drew a hexapus.
Dent ~I did, didn't I. |
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Pchimp
SENATOR BABYHEAD Posts: 159 Registered: 6/18/2003 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 19:14 |
Anyway, I've thought and read a fair amount about comparisons between the current Iraq escapade and postwar occupation and reconstruction in Germany and Japan. The Japan-Iraq comparison is more useful because in both cases intense racial and cultural differences/hatreds flavored every discourse, both groups exhibited religious fervor against the West, and they have little democratic tradition to draw from. The analyses I've read more or less agree that the japanese acquiesced to the installation of Western-style institutions because they had gotten their asses handed to them so handily. The general population had sacrificed greatly: materially, psychologically, and in human life after the Bombs. And, importantly, the government itself, which still represented it's population, formally surrendered.
None of these things happened in Iraq. There is actually some truth in the story that George's gang have been telling, about the problems in Iraq being a result of winning too quickly. There was never a surrender. War was not strangling the population -- and therefore the US couldn't get a merit badge for restoring basic services and access to food, water, etc. (if we had even done these things at all...).
What's the point? I don't know. It's all a great clusterfuck. I can't see these elections as having much legitimacy, but I think it makes sense to have them, to further the transfer of power to Iraqis. Even if they're puppets... if the institutions fostering legitimacy of a future true Iraqi government grow from them, it's worth it. We can't wait for the insurgents to give up -- they won't. Can we pull out? It's open to debate. I still side with the pundits that say it'd be a greater catastrophe if we did so. Lose-lose. I hope I'm wrong and peace will ultimately be the result of the war. But I'm not optimistic. Our boys are in a world of shit.
I just wish that, after the elections take place, in whatever form they take; I didn't have to watch our president strutting around and proclaiming a hollow victory again. |
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ghostrider
liberal exit SSHOLEPosts: 2525 Registered: 7/29/2004 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 19:38 |
Right, and unlike Japan, I don't see Iraq becoming any type of industrial or technological power. I guess they got oil, but that won't last, and I think Cheney called dibs on it.
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MstrLance ~
I think you accidentally drew a hexapus.
Dent ~I did, didn't I. |
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Dumbskull
I'm assuming the position!  SSHOLEPosts: 1935 Registered: 4/22/2004 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 19:44 |
Sadly the people of Iraq are damed if they do and damned if they don't... vote.
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Pchimp
SENATOR BABYHEAD Posts: 159 Registered: 6/18/2003 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 20:16 |
ghostrideryyz: Right, and unlike Japan, I don't see Iraq becoming any type of industrial or technological power. I guess they got oil, but that won't last, and I think Cheney called dibs on it.
On the other hand, Japan had the same amount of nothing, minus the oil.
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acheron
Cynical_Malcontent SSHOLEPosts: 567 Registered: 4/29/2004 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 20:53 |
Pchimp: ghostrideryyz: Right, and unlike Japan, I don't see Iraq becoming any type of industrial or technological power. I guess they got oil, but that won't last, and I think Cheney called dibs on it.
On the other hand, Japan had the same amount of nothing, minus the oil.
Only cause it was all bombed to shit, not cause the infrastructure and societal development wasn't there. Iraq doesn't have much in the way of that, though actually they were almost a 2nd world country in terms of their health care system and services. But now we've bombed them back into the second world.
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I'm an INTJ. This explains why I'm alternating between silence and judging you. |
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Pchimp
SENATOR BABYHEAD Posts: 159 Registered: 6/18/2003 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 21:25 |
Only cause it was all bombed to shit, not cause the infrastructure and societal development wasn't there.
I was referring to their notable lack of natural resources. |
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