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nocal
It's insane, this guy's taint   SSHOLEPosts: 833 Registered: 8/25/2004 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 17:47 |
If a person has been deemed unworthy of life why are we not attempting to give them one final chance at being a productive member of society by donating their organs to transplant banks?
I'm guessing that maybe the way that inmates die (lethal injection, in most cases) renders most of their organs useless. Just a guess though, I don't actually know.
My belief is that as forensic science improves, the amount of wrongly convicted criminals executed will lessen.
Innocent people die everyday for no good reason. If one innocent person has to die to also get rid of 10 killers, I'm for it.
The world of crime is not mirrored by CSI. There is not often an "open and shut" case with perfect DNA evidence. And to believe that innocent people die every day, so that makes it ok if some are executed by the state makes no sense. That's the same as saying, "People die all the time! So, I'm going to kill innocent people." It doesn't need to happen, and to believe that it's ok is strange. If innocent people are being executed by the state, who is the murderer to be apprehended then?
As any educated individual knows, the brain, not the groin, is what drives libido and sexual urges. So they get treatment to stop the physical function; that won't change how their brains are wired.
I'm a psych major; I don't need a lesson on how the brain works, unless you're a professor. What you are not recognizing is that in most cases, molestation fulfills a sexual urge that castration removes. With no testosterone being produced, a man cannot achieve an erection and has no real sexual urges. And as for those that have "brain wiring" problems: most medications that deal with brain chemistry change the way that the brain functions on a chemical level. And if that doesn't work, there are no children in prison and prisoners like to beat the shit out of molestors. |
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Pchimp
SENATOR BABYHEAD  Posts: 159 Registered: 6/18/2003 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 18:02 |
nocal: If a person has been deemed unworthy of life why are we not attempting to give them one final chance at being a productive member of society by donating their organs to transplant banks?
I'm guessing that maybe the way that inmates die (lethal injection, in most cases) renders most of their organs useless. Just a guess though, I don't actually know.
Most organs are still viable after lethal injection. Not after electrocution, clearly.
Innocent people die everyday for no good reason. If one innocent person has to die to also get rid of 10 killers, I'm for it.
I would be all for the utilitarian approach if there was any evidence that it lessened anyone's risk, i.e. that by executing those 10 killers (and one innocent), you ensured that society was safer. Yes, they will never kill again; but they wouldn't do so with life w/o parole, either. There is no evidence that such a situation reduces violent crime. There is, in fact, evidence that implies the opposite.
What you are not recognizing is that in most cases, molestation fulfills a sexual urge that castration removes. With no testosterone being produced, a man cannot achieve an erection and has no real sexual urges.
I think this is an important point. The effectiveness of castration, whether physical or chemical, has nothing to do with whether the pervert can "get it up." He's no longer producing (much) testosterone, which drives most of the urges in his brain. I don't think it's effective enough to justify letting any molesters back out on the streets; just thought I'd through in my two bits in favor of clarification. |
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acheron
Cynical_Malcontent  SSHOLEPosts: 567 Registered: 4/29/2004 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 18:03 |
^Nocal wins^
WERD
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I'm an INTJ. This explains why I'm alternating between silence and judging you. |
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Steel
If you want to keep your tongue, don't lick me in the Winter!  SSHOLEPosts: 518 Registered: 10/14/2004 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 19:47 |
A quick point.
Life does imitate CSI/Art. If you don't believe that a dreamer/tv show writer coming up with an interesting way to fight crime, won't be implemented in real life, you aren't just opinionated, you're stupid.
Two examples of which: Ever see those guns which administer your medicine safer? These were designed in reflection of the medical tools Dr. McCoy used on StarTrek. (Not to mention modern flip phones).
How about Tom Clancy being brought in to help with Terrorism planning by the US gov. after 9/11?
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dent
Slipping it into the wrong hole any chance I get  SSHOLEPosts: 917 Registered: 10/20/2004 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 20:06 |
This entire thread is fucking hilarious.
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"You must have weak asslips. I like to sculpt mine on the way out, like table legs under a lathe" - Vasudeva |
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Pchimp
SENATOR BABYHEAD Posts: 159 Registered: 6/18/2003 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 20:13 |
A quick rebuttal.
Two examples of which: Ever see those guns which administer your medicine safer? These were designed in reflection of the medical tools Dr. McCoy used on StarTrek. (Not to mention modern flip phones).
These are really more examples of art imitating art. The form that the invention took imitated something familiar to pop culture. The technological capacity of the invention/application did not. We'd be using cell phones now regardless of the existence of star trek.
Besides that, are you implying that developers are going to model their research on CSI because those actors are so damn good at solving crime, and darn it, real police should be too? Researchers in that field don't need such a motivation from "art." They are already trying to provide police with the tools to close the jucicial noose around guilty individuals. CSI imitatates existing techniques... the fallibility is on the human end: the interpretation, the guile of the criminal. CSI doesn't catch the bad guy because their crime-solving techniques are such hot shit; they catch the bad guy because the writer wrote it that way. Unless you're going to "ah ha" me by pointing to life's script-writer, then life imitating art is not going to help us in this case. Forensic science gets better, yes. But the human element will always make mistakes possible. You've said that you're comfortable with these mistakes. Fair enough. I'm not.
How about Tom Clancy being brought in to help with Terrorism planning by the US gov. after 9/11?
The govt did a lot of stupid things after 9/11. I personally know a scientist whose research had nothing, absolutely nothing, not even tangentially, to do with terrorism or national security; who suddenly became a "terrorism expert" on 9/12 for the govt and talk shows, mostly because he was an animated and photogenic scientist. Besides, the fact that Tom Clancy creates art doesn't mean that he doesn't know his shit. He's done lots of research on terrorism, and thought about it a great deal. It is, again, because his art imitates reality that he was sought out.
By the way, a point that has been touched on earilier, but not explicitly stated: do you trust the government with this power over life/death? |
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Steel
If you want to keep your tongue, don't lick me in the Winter! SSHOLEPosts: 518 Registered: 10/14/2004 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 20:32 |
I agree with your art/real take Pchimp, my rebutal was from when nocal bashed my original point by saying "The world of crime is not mirrored by CSI."
I'm not saying researchers arn't smart, nor am I saying they watch TV to get their crime fighting ideas.
My original point was only that forensic science is getting better. Why? Who knows. We are getting smater. My point about Tom Clancy and other writers is only that sometimes they open a new box... add imagination... perspective.
That is all. |
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Pchimp
SENATOR BABYHEAD Posts: 159 Registered: 6/18/2003 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 20:38 |
True enough. I'm just being bitchy today. |
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acheron
Cynical_Malcontent SSHOLEPosts: 567 Registered: 4/29/2004 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 20:44 |
Pchimp: True enough. I'm just being bitchy today.
Its hard to tell, this place is filled with bitchy people.
"do you trust the government with this power over life/death?"
For me this is the final reason, in a long line of argument, why DP is just unacceptable. Executions are carried out by courts. The courts are subject to political influence and manipulation. Period. The system will not by its very institutional nature, be fair, unbiased, and uncorrupt. So don't give it the oppurtunity to kill anybody. Ultimately, you're just going to be committing more murders.
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I'm an INTJ. This explains why I'm alternating between silence and judging you. |
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acheron
Cynical_Malcontent SSHOLEPosts: 567 Registered: 4/29/2004 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 20:46 |
AcheronDCS: Pchimp: True enough. I'm just being bitchy today.
Its hard to tell, this place is filled with bitchy people.
"do you trust the government with this power over life/death?"
For me this is the final reason, in a long line of argument, why DP is just unacceptable. Executions are carried out by courts. The courts are subject to political influence and manipulation. Period. The system will not by its very institutional nature, be fair, unbiased, and uncorrupt. So don't give it the oppurtunity to kill anybody. Ultimately, you're just going to be committing more murders.
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I'm an INTJ. This explains why I'm alternating between silence and judging you. |
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nocal
It's insane, this guy's taint SSHOLEPosts: 833 Registered: 8/25/2004 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 20:47 |
My original point was only that forensic science is getting better.
Yeah, you're right. Forensics is getting better, but better than what? What I'm saying is that police try to pick the simplest explanation possible or else determine there is no case so that their clearance rate is high. Therefore, there is no bullshit CSI-style solving of crimes where they take their sweet ass time and cost the department a shitload of money using sophisticated equipment if there is a simple explanation. Woman is raped, woman points at man in lineup, man imprisoned--DNA may not enter the picture in this case, and this man may be completely innocent. There is not often reliable DNA specimens for testing...CSI is imaginary. |
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acheron
Cynical_Malcontent SSHOLEPosts: 567 Registered: 4/29/2004 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 20:47 |
"Pchimp: True enough. I'm just being bitchy today."
Its hard to tell, this place is filled with bitchy people.
"do you trust the government with this power over life/death?"
For me this is the final reason, in a long line of argument, why DP is just unacceptable. Executions are carried out by courts. The courts are subject to political influence and manipulation. Period. The system will not by its very institutional nature, be fair, unbiased, and uncorrupt. So don't give it the oppurtunity to kill anybody. Ultimately, you're just going to be committing more murders.
____________________
I'm an INTJ. This explains why I'm alternating between silence and judging you. |
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Stump
SENATOR BABYHEAD  Posts: 310 Registered: 6/18/2002 Offline
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1/27/2005 at 22:03 |
Acheron goes for the Threepeet!! |
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Hey, there is nothing non-sexual about a dead old man with electrodes on his nards. -- trousersnake
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