Illegal Mexicanos Soon To Be Citizens

boomboomdiggity: 'also, name calling is the lowest form of debate and goes to show that argument is weak...'

crybaby.

Name-calling is the lowest form of debate, but it's fun, and has no necessary bearing on the accuracy or quality of the surrounding statements, you meepsucking meep-champion.

ok, ok... you both have a point. at least I am the champion...

hah!

if we didn't hire them, they wouldn't come here for jobs.

pinchee cabrones

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil: 'if we didn't hire them, they wouldn't come here for jobs.'

If it were legal for American citizens to accept $5 an hour for work that was worth $5 an hour, there would be less incentive to look towards black-market labor pools (read: illegal immigrants) as a source for $5 an hour workers.

Oh yeah, I guess child labor would be OK too, if only it was legal...

I think there is a definte problem and it will not be remedied by laws. Ethno-centric posturing against the 'foreign invasion' of the right-just homogenous american land is based on some shoddy reasoning. And also notice that the blackmarket labor does not get paid the min. wage, they don't have healthcare, they don't pay taxes and they get exploited by Citizens of this great and just nation of immigrants.

And do note, if the Native American people would have had effective border patrol, none of yous would be here.

Some dumb meep named after a groundhog sez:

hah! if we didn't hire them, they wouldn't come here for jobs. pinchee cabrones

At least LOOK at a Spanish to English dictionary, Perezoso Pendejo. it's Pinche Cabrons.

But I guess they don't teach good ol' boys, from whichever part of the rectum you plopped out from, good street spanish.

^the subtleties of irony are lost upon you

meeping goats

and I challenge you to find the Spanish plural of goats properly spelled without an 'e'. However that is correct in Portugal where they speak a different 'street spanish'.

Illegal immigrants are rational wealth maximizers. They are doing as they should given their position. They are proper capitalists and are going to completely subvert our anglocized society. A whole lot, not all, are making a great deal more than minimum wage and employers are happy to pay for the higher productivity. Deporting them is just going to create social distress and legitimize their political movement, not to mention create a gigantic expensive beauracratic mess. A stupid fence will do nothing.

The debate is fractured three ways-with the business community seeming to loosely favor a temporary-work program. Wire transfers South are meanwhile keeping a host of South/Central economies afloat with an influx of American cash. This is a legitimate economic/societal transformation that is going to occur regardless of any talk of 'rights' 'entitlement' or 'citizenship'. I mean, California wasn't supposed to be ours anyway. I think its hilarious and I fully support Latin America's right to invade, undercut our wages, leech off our social system. To be fundamentally unable to adress the wealth gap that accounts for such a migration is ridiculous. Americans just can't even imagine why the movement is happening. Welcome to globalization, north is south, south is north.

California along with New Mexico, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Arizona and Wyoming was ceded to the US under the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo as a condition to end the war. They were also given $15,000,000 in 1848 for the land and Mexico EXCEPTED the money.

So everyone yelling about how we took California and other states from them, you should look at your history books because the US could have had the whole meep country.

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil: 'Oh yeah, I guess child labor would be OK too, if only it was legal...'

Whenever a socialist gets their meep handed to them on what fair wages really mean, they change the subject to 'child labor' as if children holding jobs, and getting paid for work is inherently wrong.

There is nothing wrong with child labor. Nothing.

I'll bet that every single abuse of children in the labor force you'll care to submit as proof that child labor is inherently exploitive, is an abuse that was caused by statist interference in the labor market.

Care to bring up the textile industry, or mining, Mr. meepens?

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil: 'Ethno-centric posturing against the 'foreign invasion' of the right-just homogenous american land is based on some shoddy reasoning.'

Shoddy reasoning is the assertion that this is about 'ethno-centrism.'

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil: 'And also notice that the blackmarket labor does not get paid the min. wage, they don't have healthcare, they don't pay taxes and they get exploited by Citizens of this great and just nation of immigrants.'

And your solution is to make the black-market labor pool an even more attractive option. You are advocating for the very regulations that created and defined the black-market labor pool, and expanding upon them just so you can complain that '...that the blackmarket labor does not get paid the min. wage, they don't have healthcare, they don't pay taxes and they get exploited by Citizens of this great and just nation of immigrants.'

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil: 'And do note, if the Native American people would have had effective border patrol, none of yous would be here.'

Note: I was born here, so were my parents, so were theirs--I'm native. You probably are too. Don't sail your bullmeep 'ethno-centrist' argument in front of me and then pull this meep.

Acheron: 'Illegal immigrants are rational wealth maximizers. They are doing as they should given their position.'

HOYL FUK!!! SENSE!!!

Acheron: 'They are proper capitalists and are going to completely subvert our anglocized society.'

Oh, you left you're hat (tinfoil) at the taco stand.

Acheron: 'A whole lot, not all, are making a great deal more than minimum wage and employers are happy to pay for the higher productivity.'

I can see this as possible, but I would be careful to not use phraseology that might characterize 'a whole lot' as being 'the majority.'

Acheron: 'Deporting them is just going to create social distress and legitimize their political movement, not to mention create a gigantic expensive beauracratic mess.'

Naw. None of this is really true--except the 'bureaucratic mess' business, but that has much more to do with the nature of bureaucrats rather than the issue.

Acheron: 'A stupid fence will do nothing.'

I'll bet a stupid fence will keep IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil in. :D

Acheron: 'The debate is fractured three ways-with the business community seeming to loosely favor a temporary-work program.'

I could get behind this, but since you brought up 'bureaucratic mess'.....

Acheron: 'Wire transfers South are meanwhile keeping a host of South/Central economies afloat with an influx of American cash. This is a legitimate economic/societal transformation that is going to occur regardless of any talk of 'rights' 'entitlement' or 'citizenship'.'

RONG. Unless you are using a definition of legitimate different than I usually use, it's not; and it's going to occur UNLESS we straighten out our notions of rights, entitlement, and citizenship.

Acheron: 'I think its hilarious and I fully support Latin America's right to invade, undercut our wages, leech off our social system.'

You're an advocate for the same flavor of slavery that IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil is. You disappoint.

Acheron: 'I mean, California wasn't supposed to be ours anyway.'

You're just making this meep up, aren't you?

Acheron: 'To be fundamentally unable to adress the wealth gap that accounts for such a migration is ridiculous. Americans just can't even imagine why the movement is happening.'

You redeem yourself, but I'm not sure of your point in doing so.

wolfer: 'California along with New Mexico, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Arizona and Wyoming was ceded to the US under the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo as a condition to end the war. They were also given $15,000,000 in 1848 for the land and Mexico EXCEPTED the money.'

Yes. Mexico accepted the money--I knew Acheron was making that meep up about California.

Whenever a socialist gets their meep handed to them on what fair wages really mean, they change the subject to 'child labor' as if children holding jobs, and getting paid for work is inherently wrong.

the exploitation of the underage is done by economic not statist factors. Same goes for the exploitation of cheap laborers. Money making enterprises will go to extremes in abusing and exploiting humans because it's cheap and they can do it. There is no 'this is not moral' cost associated with a business labor decision unless there exists a legal framework which makes it unacceptable.

Hence no child labor because it is too prone to abuse. Also your version of fair wages is slavery because people can't afford to live off that money. [strawman]. But realistically, the min. wage gets in the way of enterprises trying to maximize their labor spending when black-market options exist. And you are right--raise the min. wage and actually enforcing it would require many business to break the law--because we can't ask them to follow it and they don't do it now. Sounds like you can't win that way either. As for asking for labor workers rights, meep them. Let them die so that the rich can eat.

Also do remind yourself that the majority of immigrants targeted are from Latin America and don't speak a lick of enlglish--this belies the 'english only' and other [I dare say ethno-centric] elements behind the opposition. From a sovereignty aspect it is understood, from a 'I don't think people should get anything from the government' it is plain, but if you have basic cave-man racism at the very core of the rationale, it undercuts everything.

The demographic distribution of the southwestern united snakes is largely hispanic because the territories it comprises were first settled [after killing off the indians] by Spain. Due to politics and war and the usual B.S. the people living their changed 'owners' to the USA. Projections on population indicate that more brown folks will be around than pale white folks. These brown folks will likely eat beans and tacos--they will not support deportation of other people who also eat beans and tacos. That is yet again another racially-based ethnocentric argument, but from the 'other side'.

The problem with many of you folks is that you fail to realize that the level of ignorance and stupidity on one side of an argument in the public space is often times mirrored on the other.

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil: 'the exploitation of the underage is done by economic not statist factors.'

Complete bullmeep. The economy cannot exploit--but the state can, and those who use the state most surely can.

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil: 'Same goes for the exploitation of cheap laborers.'

Still bullmeep.

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil: 'Money making enterprises will go to extremes in abusing and exploiting humans because it's cheap and they can do it.'

Bullmeep, bullmeep, bullmeep. Exploitation cannot occur without the excersise of coercive force--that coercive force comes directly from the state, or is abbetted by the state.

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil: 'There is no 'this is not moral' cost associated with a business labor decision unless there exists a legal framework which makes it unacceptable.'

Completely unfounded bullmeep. EVERY descisision made by human beings is a moral descisision, with moral implications, and moral costs--including business labor descisions.

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil: 'Hence no child labor because it is too prone to abuse. '

By the economy? Or by people sanctioned by the state, explicily or implicily to use coercive force to make people--children in this case--slaves?

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil: 'Also your version of fair wages is slavery because people can't afford to live off that money.'

Failure to support one's own existence is NOT the test of slavery, you meeping retard.

The test of slavery is the use of force to compell a human being to work involuntarily, and give over the value produced from that work, involunarily.

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil: 'Also do remind yourself that the majority of immigrants targeted are from Latin America and don't speak a lick of enlglish--this belies the 'english only' and other [I dare say ethno-centric] elements behind the opposition.'

Bullmeep. That cart doesn't pull the horse.

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil: 'The demographic distribution of the southwestern united snakes is largely hispanic because the territories it comprises were first settled [after killing off the indians] by Spain. [..and then some bullmeep about brown skinned taco eaters...]'

Spaniards Who were (and are) European, and as white as metatron, making the rest of your bullmeep argument, bullmeep.

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil: 'The problem with many of you folks is that you fail to realize that the level of ignorance and stupidity on one side of an argument in the public space is often times mirrored on the other.'

Particularly true when both sides of an argument embrace the same premise--the premise that you share with your corporatist/fascist opponents--the very premise that I reject.

All I have to do is talk like I'm a capitalist and your cold little heart grows 5 times with christmas cheer

The only real thing this thread has provided me, aside from the politics of illegal immigration, is that LOKI IS ALWAYS RIGHT. If Loki agrees with any said point, other than his own, HE WILL CONVINCE YOU ARE WRONG AND MAKE meep UP TO COUNTER SAID POINT.

Spaniards Who were (and are) European, and as white

Clifford Worley: 'the Moors are meepers'

accepted, lol, jeez, typing faster then I can think again.

Descisision?

vasudeva: 'Descisision?'

Yes. A thought process engaged in by lower functioning retards--an achievement unimpaired intellects should aspire to.

loki is a stright up, libertarian capitalist... that meep rocks!

meep. I hope your hobbesian paradigms rape you and leave you to die in the forest. That would be 'brutish' and 'short'

i'll be sure to keep an eye out...

Loki is always right.

Acheron: 'meep. I hope your hobbesian paradigms rape you and leave you to die in the forest. That would be 'brutish' and 'short''

Still bitter and blaming capitalists for the way government enforced subsidization of the salaries of minimum wage gas station coffee pot attendants has raped your barrista meep?

gise! sunny77 says I'm always right! my prayers have come troo! there really is a god!

Actually, my wage is now comfortably out of their range, so I'm not bitter. I just hope they don't raise the artificially enforced subsidization, that would totally fuk my advantage and satisfy my political idealism-I don't think I could deal with the spiritual dissonance.

So you all for something that wont direclty affect you?

Actually, my wage is now comfortably out of their range, so I'm not bitter. I just hope they don't raise the artificially enforced subsidization, that would totally fuk my advantage and satisfy my political idealism-I don't think I could deal with the spiritual dissonance.

And you pretend you have no sense of humor..HAHAHAHAHA (and meep you)

I just like pissing loki off.

Pressure points: Capitalism Social State Subsidization

Anyhow, I think Nafta is to blame for the influx of economic refugees; it's just the poor trying to eke out a living and braking a few silly laws never gets in their way of stuffing their maws.

You know, Now I remember why I come here. You can just feel the love dripping off the near useless Lit Major degrees.

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil: 'I just like pissing loki off. Pressure points: Capitalism Social State Subsidization Anyhow, I think Nafta is to blame for the influx of economic refugees; it's just the poor trying to eke out a living and braking a few silly laws never gets in their way of stuffing their maws.

I support whatever needs to happen to secure breakfast burritos as a staple of American culture.

I used to frequent a delicious Mexican place in Venice on Abbot Kinney. Mmmmmm. If any of the workers there are wetbacks, I would bear arms to protect their illegal status.

To me, the daily consumption of delictious food is much more important than where 0.00000002% of my paycheck goes. Who gives a meep. Isn't there still a federal 'helium research fund?' Trim all the retarded pork first, then we'll discuss the Mexicans..

I am secure in the knowledge that this new class shall be subsumed and will be killed off by our hedonistic American lifestyle faster than you can say five dollar meep.

Isn't there still a federal 'helium research fund?' Trim all the retarded pork first, then we'll discuss the Mexicans..

meepabeefee actually makes a somewhat valid point about the scale of the Mexican burden on the US resource pool. But think just how awesome your country would be if you cut the 'pork' and ousted the banditos.

I'm just sayin...

I stand corrected:

The issue is totally ethno centric, as I now realize that I have no problem with maplebacks coming into this country as cheap bacon pickers.