Stand-up or Ground?

I have a friend who likes this kind of stuff, and he says the guys who do mostly ground fighting also spend a lot of time training to get on the ground, and most matches are determined by who ends up in the best position when you get on the ground. So I say, advantage ground fighters, because they spend time learning how to get you on the ground properly, whereas the other guys don't learn ground fighting at all.

This is one of those questions that rely on experiance and beliefs. I watch alot of UFC and from what I have seen grapplers dominate the matches now. Back in the day is was all out brunt force.

Like most bouncers I will tell you that Karate isn't that good in real life situations as it requires that you have room to move around whereas most fights I've been in have been extremely close contact and generate to the ground very fast. Having said that I will say that Karate fighters that have drilled enough to make their actions an instinct can swing the fight in their favour at the very start as long as they attack first. I consider myself as a brawler as I don't use legs and feet except for blocks.

Now for the ultimate secret to fighting: gravity. It's all in your balance and the way you use gravity to your advantage - whether it be dropping to block a blow or your ability to maneuver your weight to take one. To me the ultimate form of blocking and restriction(which in turn opens an opponent to a blow) is a technique called grounding where you excerpt the force behind a blow away from yourself or through yourself to the ground(hence the term).

I have experiwence but I'm low on beliefs at the moment.

One thing I always notice about those internet fight videos is that most of them end up on the ground.

I got fairly into Ninjutsu when I was at university and we did a lot of grappling as well as stand-up fighting. A really good excercise was sparring from a kneeling position because you get to find out what you know that works when your mobility is limited.

Having said that, I think that the only way anyone can get good at fighting is by getting into fights, so your shoot-fighter friend probably had an advantage from the start if he'd had lots of match experience.

Congratulations Qwerty you meeptard, you just described the basic principle of Akido.

I'm going with Lefen on the experience thing, the more experienced fighter should almost always win no matter the style. Two people with fairly the same experience though and I have to give it to the grappler, a joint lock is a meep of a lot more painful than a kick or punch to the ribs.

Qwerty, you just proved how little you understand martial arts. There's a saying in nearly all forms of karate - "Bridge the gap". What that means is the only way to attack targets is to close any space between the two fighters. The closer to your opponent, the better. If you're trying to create space between you and your opponent, then you probably should just run away.

Also, the statement "karate guys can win as long as they attack first" is completely backwards, considering karate is a form of defense, not offense. Every action cause a reaction, which means that we wait for the attack, then react.

When people use the term "brawler" as in, "I'm a brawler", that means that you have to rely on bullmeep luck. Kicking drunk dudes out of a bar/club takes about as much skill as beating on a child.

Anyway, now that I'm done making fun of Qwerty, I can finish on topic. Most fights do end up on the ground, but all fights start on your feet. If you're trained in any martial arts, fighting someone with no training will give you the win, at least 95% of the time. That's the point of self defense, to defend yourself. When you start talking about competition with two trained fighters in different arts, anything can happen. But, when you start mixing grapplers against other styles, grapplers seem to have an advantage.

I figure the a less-experienced grappler is still more likely to win versus a more-experienced kicker/puncher if both are well-trained.

I'm old school.

That guy has a beautiful meep.

The Kenpo techniques I remember dealt with groundings, but mainly fending off someone still standing. That being said, being on the ground in a fight is a real bad feeling. I wrestled for a few years in school but I sucked. I am way better off on my feet.

Good point, Ghost. I keep forgetting you're a fellow American Kenpo Bro Guy.

There are many techniques in our arsenal for defending a shoot to the ground. But, if they fail, I'm in trouble.

There's a saying in nearly all forms of karate - "Bridge the gap". What that means is the only way to attack targets is to close any space between the two fighters. The closer to your opponent, the better. If you're trying to create space between you and your opponent, then you probably should just run away.

Yah dude however Karate is centered more on kicking and to kick you need space. Trust me I've seen too many self confessed karate champs get destroyed in bar fights because they don't have a clue about what do to when they don't have the space.

Also, the statement "karate guys can win as long as they attack first" is completely backwards, considering karate is a form of defense, not offense. Every action cause a reaction, which means that we wait for the attack, then react.

The statement is there to say if you know that you have no other option than to fight and you have the ability to land a kick then you're better off kicking the dude while you can.

When people use the term "brawler" as in, "I'm a brawler", that means that you have to rely on bullmeep luck. Kicking drunk dudes out of a bar/club takes about as much skill as beating on a child.

lol. You don't understand that brawling is all about getting your head kicked in enough to learn how to defend yourself. It's not luck. Sure thing dude, it's not hard to kick dudes out of the pub when they're drunk that's not fighting. Fighting is when a guy you kickout waits outback with 3-4 of his mates and jumps you as you try to open your car, sure anyone can take care of themselves there.

You are picking on qwerty too hard. For once he made some reasonable comments, which you may disagree with, but at least aren't hillary duff or unicorn themed. A lot of the points he made make sense if you view them within the context of bar fights, not UFC or dojo-style matches, or whatever. Don't get your panties in your bunch because it's qwerty.

[x] Panties In Bunch Due To Qwerty [ ] Panties Not In Bunch Due To Qwerty

My point is that you cannot say that you need room for karate. Yeah, Tai Kwon Blow is a great example of needing room to dance and throw kicks, but that is designed specifically for sport, not for real-life defense. There are a ton of styles that revolve around westernized boxing, elbows, knees and short kicks.

Qwerty had some good points, but some of his points seemed a bit uninformed. That's what this is about, discussion, yo.

THE QWERTY REDEMPTION!!11!

Fuk that, he'll always be the boy who cried meepgot.

qwerty = teh w1nn0r

huzzuh

I`ve seen this dude just lay down and wait for his opponent to come anywhere near his "spiderweb".I think he proved time and time again that grapplers win more often than not.

Yup, more often than not is right. After all this discussing and me getting pounded Monday, I sought out a school that teaches grappling. I'm still training in Kenpo, just want to add some ground skills to the regimen.