BeachGoat       06-12-2009, 11:27 pm

I have three college degrees, and over thirty years work experience. I have spent over two years looking for a job, and over 2000 job applications later, I am mowing vacant lots for weed abatement, painting an occasional house, and doing a welding job here and there. I feel lucky to clear $200 a month. We've been selling of our belongings to survive. Thank Dog we don't have loans, mortgages, or credit cards to pay on, or we'd be screwed and homeless. (always pay cash!)

An education and the accompanying degrees are no guarantee of better employment, or even a job, period. This is not to say that if you can better your self, you shouldn't. But if you feel that you are at your top, then go for it. An urban environment is way different from where I'm at.

Good luck.

SexNinja       06-12-2009, 11:54 pm

Yes. Experience (depending on the position of course) oftentimes counts more than degrees in houses that know their shit. You don't want to work for places that don't.

And who says you can't continue your education while working? Nights, weekends, online? It's possible. It's what I plan to do here pretty soon.

middle_age_man       06-13-2009, 12:13 am

I concur. Take the job, pay down your student loan debt (if you have any) and work on the degree later if you need it to get ahead down the road.

bobacus       06-13-2009, 01:42 am

Have you considered taking the job, biting the bullet for like 3 years and complete the degree anyway? Corporate ladders are easier to mount from inside the house.Usually.

DeJeR       06-13-2009, 03:44 am

F everyone else's noise. Get the degree. CSci can get 80K out of the gate. It all depends on the school you come from and what kind of projects or internships you've done to prove yourself along the way, but assuming you have a few computer related synapses running the job would be your best bet.

Think about it: So you take several years off making 65K. You get comfortable at this amount and you save up "some" money.

-Or-

You work hard for another two years and live like a third world country and then you have 15K more per year to pay off loans while you comfortably live on 65K that's left over.

Bada Bing Bada Boom.

Gotta spend money to get money.

graycube       06-13-2009, 11:12 am

It took me 10 years to get my degree, working during the day and going to school at night. I'm not sure the credentials were worth it, but the education was.

After getting my BS, I continued taking classes at night, in whatever interested me. I even took a year off of work and took a bunch of graduate classes.

Now I _still_ work in IT. I'm not sure my career has "advanced" in close to 20 years (since before I got my degree). (Although I am getting better at it.) On the other hand, I'm also still taking classes in subjects that interest me (art classes - at the moment).

If you aren't curious. If you aren't interested in anything, then just go get a job and join the masses, make a few babies and be a good consumer. If you find you are insatiably curious about the world around you, then I highly recommend setting about on a lifetime path of personal growth. Make money where and when you have to. Travel. Meet people. Play music, do art, mad science experiments in your basement, build a blacksmith's forge in your garage, and brew your own gruits. Have fun.

In case you haven't noticed "The American Dream" is dysfunctional and most often unfulfilling when achieved. I'm not convinced it should be anyone's goal, let alone a "swarmer".

Educate yourself because you are interested in it, not for the credentials.

wrecker       06-13-2009, 12:34 pm

F everyone else's noise. Get the degree. CSci can get 80K out of the gate.

^^^ Is complete and utter bullshit. It would seem someone has been listening to too many GET YER MCSE AND GET RICH QUICK!!!!1" commercials.

Entry level (which is what you will be) pay for a Sysadmin job (depending on where you are) will range anywhere between 50-70K

The best advice I have ever received is that which I am about to pass along to you. You need to do what makes you happy first and worry about the money second. You MIGHT make 80K right out of the gate (you won't, but for the sake of argument, I'll let that slide) but what if the job is shit. You are making mad cash, but everyday you are miserable. So, you end up spending your money on stupid shit to try and make yourself happy when you aren't at work, but the next day, there you are watching the clock, hoping you'll die so it will all just end. Is that any way to live?

Maybe the job is great, but you have to commute 50 miles to get there. That will cost you an extra two hours every day. It's little things like this that add up after awhile that need to be considered.

When I was laid off last November, I ended up with two offers. The first was a long term contract (year +) where I would have made somewhere in the neighborhood of 75K. The commute would have been a bastard everyday and no benefits. The second offer was a permanent position with a pension for 55K. I took the 55K position and it has been the best decision I could have made.

As far as CS degrees go, I was working on mine, found out that getting it wouldn't really get me ahead in any way, so I stopped. I have an Associates degree in Gen. Ed. My current position as a Sysadmin is based entirely on my experience. Certifications are nice, in that they get you noticed in job hunts. I have an MCSA for Windows 2000 that IBM paid for me to get as part of my severance package. Does it mean anything? Not really. I didn't know much more after getting certified that I didn't already know before the classes, but I had those letters to put on my resume.

So, basically, if you are happy doing the school network thing, stay in school and finish. If not, take the sysadmin job and try it on. Not having the CS degree is most likely not going to limit you.

Take it for what it's worth. Good luck.

wotak       06-13-2009, 01:44 pm

Take the job and keep going to school until you finish. I doesn't matter where you finish as long as you do. The fact that you worked your ass through school is a major plus to any potential employer.

Wotak quit school for a job. The career has been rewarding for over 15 years but now the jobs have all dried up and only people with degrees are being hired. Don't be Wotak. Finish school, faggot.

Also, if you don't take the job, you are faggot.

jwalker       06-13-2009, 02:33 pm

It sounds like you'll never be satisfied with IT grunt work - can't blame you, I wouldn't either. Rough it for another two years and GET THE DEGREE! Then find a job that's challenging and excites you, and don't settle for less. You can make good money as a developer.

nurglets       06-13-2009, 03:13 pm

whittle it down to the basics:

1. Are you sure you can land a job once you've earned your degree. How many jobs per graduates are there?

2. If once you've earned the degree, are you sure they'll offer you an extra 15k just for guy with a degree, or just see you as fresh meat to pay their basic rate for whatever the position is.

3. Do you think future employers will look more favourably on someone with experience and a proven track record, or go for a newbie who has the book smarts, but no real world experience.

4. How hard will it be to pick up where you left off should you leave your studies now, will it be possible at all, let alone feasible/practical to work and study at the same time.

vasudeva       06-13-2009, 03:21 pm

running cable and racking servers

That sounds kinda janitorial to me.

If you really want to live up to what I suspect is your true potential, pursue the degree.

Not necessarily computer science, but a BS in something four-year. Concentrate in practice, not theory, where possible -- labs and such where you get to actually perform the skills, not just memorize rote facts you might not retain later. In your third or fourth year, install a horizontal bar in your home or basement. Mount it upside-down so that you're hanging by your knees. Prepare for this beforehand by drinking as much gatorade as you can stomach. Once you're up there, relieve a small portion of the pressure on your distended belly by urinating directly down into your own stupid mouth while sliding a butter knife into a nearby electrical outlet. (A diaper is optional but will add a kind of low-brow flair for your finders.)

HTH

spankerchief       06-13-2009, 03:26 pm

Wow. See, this is why I keep coming back. Some of you silly fuckers actually have some decent advice.

spankerchief       06-13-2009, 03:30 pm

...Then Vasudeva manages to slip ^that^ in before I finish typing.

vasudeva       06-13-2009, 03:33 pm

What, that's pretty decent advice.

Clavis_Apocalypticae       06-14-2009, 07:29 pm

/thread

wrecker       06-14-2009, 09:31 pm

Never underestimate Vasudeva's ability to slip it in before you finish typing.

DeJeR       06-14-2009, 10:29 pm

>> It would seem someone has been listening to too many GET YER MCSE AND GET RICH QUICK!!!!1" commercials.

If he's talking about an MCSE, then hell no. I'm talking about a real university education.

Having a piece of paper behind your name that says "University of Such and Such" doesn't mean that you're an expert in your field, but it does me that you have the critical thinking capability to become an expert.

Case Study: I could have done an "Engineering Technology" degree or a full on "Mechanical Engineering BS". My peers at my job are all 4 to 8 years older than me because they had to start much lower on the totem pole and work their way up and at 30 years old, they're doing what I'm doing at 24. Having a shiny piece of paper that said "BSME from University of Blah Blah Blah" got me that job years before my time.

sugarslim       06-15-2009, 04:33 am

Professional longevity should also be mentioned:

The developer track seems to be the obvious choice in this regard, however is there something to be said for the implementer?