IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil       09-16-2006, 07:19 pm

What happened to that chubby goodness that said it wasn't just the musselman but the people that go for the pope too?

All religion is bad for everyone. Serbians were good christians, note the abortion clinic bombers and let's not forget the christian armies in Nigeria and other parts of africa with child soldiers...

True, it's not the nice old immam or the friendly ex-Nazi pope who is the problem. It is the legions of moronic idiots that belive in fantasy, life after death, reincarnation, transubstantiation and other transparently illogical and irrational things that are the problem.

Is it any different that they both share an abrahamic god? and the Jews, we can't leave these fuckers out of it either--they bomb and kill for their god as well.

All gods inspire murderers and you know that.

ghostrider       09-16-2006, 07:22 pm

Nuke em all, I say. Turn them countries into a huge sheet of glass.

But I'm biased...

dinozoa       09-16-2006, 07:26 pm

The biggest victory by the US in the war on terror has been convincing everyone, including their enemies, this is an ideological struggle, not an economic struggle.

ghostrider       09-16-2006, 07:32 pm

Don't you think it's alot of both ? They are intertwined.

SexNinja       09-16-2006, 07:33 pm

Reason number one million why religion and its followers are worthless, unless you want to create a perpetual war and maintain a state of fear/ignorance in your country that enables such a thing.

ghostrider       09-16-2006, 07:38 pm

Yeah, the former Soviet Union is a perfect example of a godless society that avoided all the war, propaganda and fear.

dinozoa       09-16-2006, 07:46 pm

Where is the ideological struggle with Iraq? Rumsfield was the guy in charge of setting up the Baathist govt in Iraq, Saddam an all. Iraq I was started because the state dept under Bush Sr gave Saddam permission to invade Kuwait, then changed its mind. We invaded Iraq for the second time in 2003, before the elction of Ahmadinejad in Iran, or the election of Hamas to govt in Palestine.

There are plenty of cultures and religions which are anti-American, anti-Christian. They don't have oil. Venezuela is the sole exception, and you can see how successful the US media has been casting Hugo Chavez as a raving throwback to Brezhnev and Castro-circa-1980s.

Consider the current salivations in the state dept over the possibility of Castro dying in Cuba, and the recent declaration of ExxonMobil that it is staking claim to oil in the international waters in the Gulf of Mexico.

fargina       09-16-2006, 08:00 pm

I think its a scary thing that innocent depictions like this can enrage them so.



Just food for thought

SexNinja       09-16-2006, 08:02 pm

Yeah, it's pretty sad to see the former Soviet Union thinking up new and inventive ways to further public ignorance/idiocy on a daily basis.

middle_age_man       09-16-2006, 08:31 pm

I don�t believe that this problem is rooted in religion itself but more a problem of fundamentalism. The clash of ideologies and civilizations that is currently being waged between the west and the Islamic east is led and fueled by conservative fundamentalists.

ghostrider       09-16-2006, 08:52 pm

Religion, as a root cause, can be substituted with political ideaology, skin color, economic status, geographical proximity, and a host of others as a source of unresolvable conflict as on a wide-scale basis.
I am not defending religion in any way, but to think of that ideal as a basis of stupidity and hubris above any other is at best a very narrow view.

ghostrider       09-16-2006, 08:54 pm

-caution-

There might be an extra 'as' in my previous post.

wrecker       09-16-2006, 09:06 pm

Personally I am of the belief that pretty much all Muslims are batshit crazy.

THe ones that appear 'moderate' refuse to speak out againt the fanatics, and the fanatics, well they're fanatics.

I don't like Catholics either. Or Seventh Day Adventist.

I do like those fuckers that go to church with rattlesnakes. Simply because there's always the chance that some dumbass will get bitten and die.

Seriously though azron, is this really a suprise? News breaks that Iraqis are torturing Iraqis at Abu Gharib, and the story registers little more than a whisper. But let some old white dude repeat a quote from the crusades and all hell breaks loose.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Dinoza: The American GWoT may ultimately be economic, but that does not excuse the nation of Islam for it's misbehavior on the world stage.

IMBOLCPunxsutawneyPhil       09-16-2006, 10:37 pm

Ghostie has a point however about the narrowmindedness towards idiocy and the troglodyte nature of the collective identity however formed.

I do think that asking people to look beyond traditional kinship ties such as superficial customs, facial features, speech patterns, clothing, skin color, and other tribal indicators is different from IMAGINED group identities such as holy relics, magical books or scary thoughts and boogie men.

As to how this plays into the propaganda machine we can all plainly see that it does sucessfully mask the economic motives and provides cover for continued atrocities in the name of "us vs. them".

Religion is a tool for mass control. There are others such as the "news" and a wide array of social constructs that enforce and broadcast this propaganda.

freakbass       09-16-2006, 10:39 pm

I can think of nothing more beautiful than a bunch of Muslims burning down the Vatican.

The Illuminati should have thought of this when they were trying to do it..

dagwood       09-17-2006, 12:30 am

Religion contnues to serve governments. The best way of pulling on the heartstings of a collective is to make it an idealogical conflict. The minds and bodies follow, although I think the mind is a minimal factor concerning motivations of the idiot unwashed masses.
The people have feelings ,they have passion, and they have bombs. If we could just fucking STOP, long enough to THINK about what we are doing to each other and the planet we might have a chance. At this rate we are all doomed, doomed I tell you.

No really, Iran is now considering the implications of continued resistance to international concerns. Amadinijad and his fanatic govt don't wanna have to, but there are a great many reasonable intelligent people with families, homes, investments, futures who would just like to go to work tomorrow and have their kids b-day part next week. If the people are thoughtful and informed, and willing to sacrifice to have a better life oppressive govts don't have a chance. The people of Iraq and Iran would really like to be accepted on the world stage but there's always a few greedy, power hungry zealots who use religion as a tool to keep them back. It is precisely this greed that prevents any real progess. Money, land, power, technology, influence, commodities leads them to war which destroys all of that.

jwalker       09-17-2006, 12:36 am

F**k the pope, and the people he's piously pissed off. They're all a bunch of crazy fanatics!

phlebas       09-17-2006, 01:00 am

Unrest in the Middle-East is a benefit to the global economy. If the nations of the region were to gain solidarity, they could gain a centralized control of the most sought-after resource on the planet. OPEC moderates the outward flow, but cannot control the output of the regional systems due to the chaotic implements devised by he major powers of said global economy.

Years of this controlled unrest in the region have caused, unfortunately, a hotbed rife with hatred toward the overlords in control of the chaos.

Humans require a system of order. Either it's a creation of ourselves, or we rely on a framework created by others.

Our continued destruction of their governments has led the citizens of the region to the last bastion of their society: their relgion. Unfortunately, for us, this religion has no controls over violence.

dinozoa       09-17-2006, 06:01 am

Phlebas: listen to the lies that come out of your mouth.

Dagwood: I really like the way you put your argument. Sometimes it's nice to hear somebody say something I agree with.

Everybody else: for most things in life, religion is the symptom, not the problem. If fundamental Islam is staunchly anti-US, is this because of religious hatred of US Christianity, or is this because the Muslim fundamentalists happen to be concentrated in an oil rich geography with a long history of being colonized/invaded/controlled by Western opressors?

Acheron       09-17-2006, 10:46 am

I'm researching some old New York Times and I thought this was of interest:

NYT July 29, 1947

"In the Arab States bordering on Palestine there is considerable talk of an Arab uprising in the Holy Lnad some time between September and next summer. "I have heard a lot of it" a foreign diplomat in constant contact with numerous Arab statesmen said in Damascus last week..."A partition of Palestine or establishment of a Jewish state would sound the signal for general agitation throughout the Near East, with incalcuable consequences" Jamil Mardam Bey, Syrian Premier said. "

59 years later its gotten a lot worse for the people in the area. Muslims feel like they are under attack from the West and they have a lot of evidence, a LOT of evidence, that the perception is correct. We've destablized the middle east. Everyone is on edge. We've created a politically dangerous situation, and as a consequence people riot when you phrase things incorrectly. The Pope's statements were entirely reasonable, but he had to know that as the living embodiment of the Catholic Church, talking about Islam in anything other than the most sensitive terms could get people killed the way things are right now.

The only hope for world peace is to allow the creation legitimate Palestinian State and to give it and Iran and Syria nuclear weapons. This way they will have security and we won't fuck with them. Sound insane? I think its a better policy than the current one.

jwalker       09-17-2006, 12:05 pm

Notice how the pope didn't apologize for his remarks - he apologized for the anger his remarks caused. As if to say "I'm sorry Muslims are such hot-headed boobs".

If I were a muslim leader (goddess forbid), I'd also ask for an explanation.
Aljazeera.net
Habib said: "Why did he choose it (the quote) if it did not express his opinions? ... And if it does not express his thoughts and opinions, then let him tell us what his thoughts and perspective on this issue are."