tantrum       01-15-2006, 12:48 pm

Sadly it seems inevitable that everything pure and authentic gets appropriated by clueless retards.

There's nothing like sitting alone with your headphones at night, listening to some music that really speaks to you, going to the concert ...then realizing when you arrive that your fellow fans are mostly doe-eyed faggots waiting to be recognized by their other "hardcore" ilk. They are the idiots who talk when music is playing and when some girls catch their attention go into a 3 mintue Sid Vicious act. I see this shit in young and old "scenesters".

I'm going to be 32 this year... it's become harder and harder to relate to most of the music I used to listen to. I've always searched for things that move me toward diffrent emotional places. It's rare to find music (or art for that matter) that isn't a recycled version of what came before it. In order for things to affect me I have to trust it, I have to trust that the people making it have honest intentions...but what you can't control is the fan base that latches onto something true. This fact has tainted a mutitude of bands for me.

shitbox       01-15-2006, 05:04 pm

'hardcore'? You disgrace the word. Hardcore isn't unique to the fag/punk shit that seems to be the thing people are talking about when they use that word nowadays.
To me, hardcore is hardcore. I like to save the term 'hardcore' for only the most deserving of music or situations. Like Brotha Lynch Hung(rap) and well, maybe some cannibal corpse, or when I kill a young-gook-female-sniper in a vietnam movie by stanley kubrick.

mundhra       01-15-2006, 05:10 pm

To me, hardcore is hardcore.

thanks for the clarification!

you are talking about hardcore as an adjective rather than a musical genre. as such, this is probably the wrong discussion for you. go back to 'nitpicking 101'.

mundhra       01-15-2006, 05:15 pm

p.s. the 'scene' has always had hipsters. i was that guy that got weird looks because i wasn't wearing spiked bracelets or other shit. the hipsters have never been so laughable though...

shitbox       01-15-2006, 05:24 pm

Mund...thats my point...'hardcore' IS an adjective and IS NOT a genre.

vasudeva       01-15-2006, 05:24 pm

Tantrum has spoken truth in all ways.

I think the plagiarism thing is cyclical. Those dudes with the long poodly hair walking around with the Deep Purple shirts when I was 12 probably thought I owed my soul to Tony Iommi and Geezer Butler, but I had no idea who those guys were and didn't care much.

Everything in music that I see these days is hard to enjoy; it all screams pretension. The only problem with saying that is that pretension seems to imply some level of finesse or culture, or at least pretending thereto. This shit is all WWF.

Before grunge picked up and showed all the money-makers where to head, 120 Minutes would play all those videos of bands that were determinedly "alternative" but were thoroughly unremarkable. I hope this is the same kind of lull.

The only shit I enjoy now is stuff I've been enjoying for 10 years. I say this with sadness.

uart       01-15-2006, 07:59 pm

Little kids are idiots. Idiots think that music is about looking a certain way, and acting a certain way, instead of being about listening to something.

mundhra       01-15-2006, 10:27 pm

shitbox: please stop talking music if you know nothing about it. one; two

government_death_robot       01-15-2006, 10:33 pm

If they like the music... what's the problem?

If they don't like the music... so what?

vladtweano       01-15-2006, 10:49 pm

This sounds like rec.music.gdead or rec.music.phish from 10 years ago, bemoaning the "scene" that was once considered theirs until the whitehatted fratsters showed up with their nitrous and what happened to the kind, man?

Or the safety-pinned sidsters from 20 years ago sneering at new wave and the Tendencies and Kennedys, like they had some claim to the spirit of angry youth when all it was really about was the coke.

In almost every case, what's left out of all of these hysterics is the music.

shitbox       01-16-2006, 02:00 am

Its still a fucking ajective, or as put here, a sub-genre

yazirian       01-16-2006, 08:29 am

Hardcore is too a genre.



OF PORN.

metatron       01-16-2006, 08:32 am

As a young teenager, I attended a Star Trek convention. Probably one of the coolest (and also saddest) experiences of my life. On one hand, I got to meet some of my favorite actors from the various series - On the other hand, I got to see exactly what my fellow "fans" looked and acted like. The same sad logic can be applied to the concert of your favorite band. A "scenester" is no better than your average loser star trek nerd.

sahlgoode       01-16-2006, 11:01 am

The re-cycling of music isn't always a bad thing. A lot of old bluesmen started getting royalty
cheques when the likes of the Stones, Cream, and Zeppelin came along. Prior to that, they were
relied on painting houses, and driving cabs to put food on the table. If you're a hardcore musician and really can create something different , then paying homage to those that inspired you sometimes
just seems to be the fitting thing to do. It's the hacks, and cagey talented people that subvert the mainstream like a great dysfunctional fart. Dysfunction breeds dysfunction, like a big stinking plagiaristic epidemic.

Woody Guthrie taught Bob Dylan how to grab tunes that were public domain, and change the words just a little. By doing this, Baub attached his name as the writer, and as a result got some
fat royalty cheques, because times they are a changin'. The entire world seemed to fall for it, and
Baub soon became lauded as a poetic genius. In actual fact, it was another great rock'n'roll
swindle. Such was the mind-set of the gullibale listening public.

There was a time when every jazz guitarist would throw "Somewhere, over the freakin' rainbow"
in the middle of their hot solo. Shave & a Haircut, two bits. FUCK the cliche's run unrestrained.

Lloyd Andrew Webber stole Echoes from Pink Floyd to give Phantom some balls, and the entire first five minutes of the second act of Cats is purely Khachaturian. SWINDLE!!!

Lloyd, and Baub, are respected in the mainstream. It's no wonder that we're left on our own to
fend for ourselves while looking for something pure. Mainstream music is akin to the social safety
net provided by welfare. You can live off the government nipple if you want to, but be prepared
to eat a lot of stale bread. While music doesn't have a best before date stamped on it, the smell seems to permeate like mold when it's kept in the breadbox too long, ala top 40's fashion.

I agree with Vas, most of the stuff I listen to is ten years old or more, in heavy roataion. I can't tell the difference in some of the stuff that's coming out of the pipe. Creed, Nickleback, Tool, Godsmack, they all sound the same to me, and I think that's the reason the RIAA is having problems. Not because of P2P, but because the quality of shit that they think we should like, and
are trying to protect is big budget white bread that lacks flavour.

tantrum       01-16-2006, 02:36 pm

I think the plagiarism thing is cyclical.Everything in music that I see these days is hard to enjoy; it all screams pretension. The only problem with saying that is that pretension seems to imply some level of finesse or culture, or at least pretending thereto. This shit is all WWF.


Yeah, the borrowing of elements of already existing art forms to create new ones is nothing new and inevitable also. But it seems to me that if you look at the last 20 years of music there has been a huge push to comply to the certain music buying segments of society. Musicians and record companies are more aware of the money to be made (and lost) when conceiving their next project. Money begins to dictate every musical decision. It's worse now than it ever has been. The saturation of media and advertising attention given to the embracing a "social genre" overpowers even the most resolute listeners. Sadly, most fall right in line.

I'm thinking technology will save us. In much the same way the electric guitar paved the way for a whole new somethin-somethin, some new instrumnet will revolutionize music again. Let's hope that's cyclical as well.

This sounds like rec.music.gdead or rec.music.phish from 10 years ago, bemoaning the "scene" that was once considered theirs until the whitehatted fratsters showed up with their nitrous and what happened to the kind, man?

Or the safety-pinned sidsters from 20 years ago sneering at new wave and the Tendencies and Kennedys, like they had some claim to the spirit of angry youth when all it was really about was the coke.

In almost every case, what's left out of all of these hysterics is the music.

Totally valid point. I've thought alot about how my perception and insight into an artists life affects my enjoyment (or dislike) of their art. I'm sure I need to think more about it in order to clarify things in my head. There are so many variable factors that go into what I can accept as truth and what I just can't..of what I can overlook or tolerate to just enjoy the music...it seems sometimes my cynical nature is so intertwined what should be easy appretiation. But in all honesty, I wouldn't have it any other way.

I'm as easily manipulated as the next person I'm afraid, but I try to be hoodwinked with my eyes wide open.