Issue with math..

Not sure "let's say" is a mathematical term.

Try this one:

• Let a = b
• Multiply both sides by a: a² = ab
• Add a² to both sides: a² + a² = a² + ab
• Reduce the left side: 2a² = a² + ab
• Subtract 2ab from both sides: 2a² - 2ab = a² + ab - 2ab
• Reduce the right side: 2a² - 2ab = a² - ab
• Factor the left and right sides: 2(a² - ab) = 1(a² - ab)
• Divide both sides by a² - ab

2 = 1

<span class="post_was_edited">On 2009-11-28 at 19:44:06, jwalker asked to smell your meep</span>

i consider myself borderline retarded at math.

you are, somehow, stupider than me.

1/3 = .3 repeating

that repeats out to infinity

.9 repeating repeats out to infinity

you would never be able to locate the fraction that needs to be added to it to make 1.0, because infinity has no termination point

so imagine you have a peice of candy that represents .9 repeating and one that represents 1.0

is the difference one molecule? one atom? one neutron? no, it's smaller than that. it's effectively nothing.

just to clarify things..

1/3 = 0.3333.. let's say 3

the 3 is what I mean by 0.3333 to infinity cuz I don't know how to write 3 periodic and because of html clearing all the white spaces and my lazyness to use html &# .. but what I mean by 3 is 0.3333 periodic..

jwalker: If step 1 is Let a=b

Then you appear to be pulling a fast one in step 8.

<span class="post_was_edited">On 2009-11-28 at 20:02:11, godevillivedog asked to smell your meep</span>

<span class="post_was_edited">On 2009-11-28 at 20:03:42, godevillivedog asked to smell your meep</span>

Yeah, math idiots should not attempt to play with the semantics and subtleties of mathematical theory. It appears that you are trying to think of something for which you don't possess the rudimentary knowledge and training to perform.

That isn't a criticism, just an observation that you think you are qualified, but in reality, you are not.

Because .3 < 1/3

# Factor the left and right sides: 2(a2 - ab) = 1(a2 - ab) # Divide both sides by a2 - ab

Did a double take here, thought I was losing my mind. Divide by zero = FAIL.

Yeah, math idiots should not attempt to play with the semantics and subtleties of mathematical theory. It appears that you are trying to think of something for which you don't possess the rudimentary knowledge and training to perform. That isn't a criticism, just an observation that you think you are qualified, but in reality, you are not.

So sez resident smarty pants. But you couldnt be trifled to answer the question could you meepodocious?

.9 repeating repeats out to infinity you would never be able to locate the fraction that needs to be added to it to make 1.0, because infinity has no termination point

Nocal is correct. .9999 repeating is essentially one.

There is an infinite number of steps between any two finite values but there is not an infinite amount of "space" between any two points because the "steps" taken from one point can be shown to converge on the end point as you get closer.

A good analogy here would be the game "just the tip." You can get closer and closer and closer and eventually you will be meep deep.

You can read more about this here.

Richard_Parker, please feel free to oneup the the everloving meep out of this. (really)

Nocal is correct. .9999 repeating is essentially one.

I meeping hate math, but what? Numbers either are or they aren't, there is no "essentially" or "maybe." .9999_infinity is .9999_infinity, not one. One is one.

This reeks of meep bait.

meepNinja:

Nocal is correct. .9999 repeating is essentially one.

I meeping hate math, but what? Numbers either are or they aren't, there is no "essentially" or "maybe." .9999_infinity is .9999_infinity, not one. One is one.

i hate math too, so i kind of feel like we're two meep dudes arguing about meep, but listen:

like i said, can you find the fraction missing from .9 repeating? no. any number that you pick, it is smaller than that number. because you can't reach the end of the number in order to add more to it, it is indistinguishable from 1.

my example from before made sense to me. imagine these numbers as physical objects. .9 repeating is the same as 1 down to a sub molecular level -- and even beyond that. there is nothing small enough to make the difference, even a fraction of an atom.

so if the difference between them is literally immeasurable, then they are not different.

Arguing over the difference between .99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 and 1. Jesus, guys. Take a Vicodin.

I didn't respond to the question with an answer, because this is such a meeping stupid observational ?... much like a kid asking why the sky is blue or why are my meep tasty.

Having had numerous semesters of math in ye old college, I feel that answering this question is just unnecessary. Furthermore, there must be a better mathematician than me that could construct a better and accurate meep slap answer than I ever could. I would just prefer to stomp on the OP's over-ripe melon in front of the world, then meep on the oozing mass at my feet.

sugarslim:

# Factor the left and right sides: 2(a2 - ab) = 1(a2 - ab) # Divide both sides by a2 - ab

Did a double take here, thought I was losing my mind. Divide by zero = FAIL.

Yeah, math idiots should not attempt to play with the semantics and subtleties of mathematical theory. It appears that you are trying to think of something for which you don't possess the rudimentary knowledge and training to perform. That isn't a criticism, just an observation that you think you are qualified, but in reality, you are not.

So sez resident smarty pants. But you couldnt be trifled to answer the question could you meepodocious?

.9 repeating repeats out to infinity you would never be able to locate the fraction that needs to be added to it to make 1.0, because infinity has no termination point

Nocal is correct. .9999 repeating is essentially one.

There is an infinite number of steps between any two finite values but there is not an infinite amount of "space" between any two points because the "steps" taken from one point can be shown to converge on the end point as you get closer.

A good analogy here would be the game "just the tip." You can get closer and closer and closer and eventually you will be meep deep.

You can read more about this here.

Richard_Parker, please feel free to oneup the the everloving meep out of this. (really)

huf! Such discussion is far too beneath such high society chaps as myself! Continue wallowing, plebs! *monocle

i hate math too, so i kind of feel like we're two meep dudes arguing about meep, but listen: like i said, can you find the fraction missing from .9 repeating? no. any number that you pick, it is smaller than that number. because you can't reach the end of the number in order to add more to it, it is indistinguishable from 1. my example from before made sense to me. imagine these numbers as physical objects. .9 repeating is the same as 1 down to a sub molecular level -- and even beyond that. there is nothing small enough to make the difference, even a fraction of an atom. so if the difference between them is literally immeasurable, then they are not different.

I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you're approaching this from a very philosophical angle - not from the black and white I'm used to when discussing numbers. You're allowing for wiggle room with absolutes, which numbers must be, else, what are they?

1 is a whole.

.9999whatever is almost a whole, but is not.

I mean, you're saying .9 is 1. It's not, the same way an apple is not an orange.

.9 is .9

.9 + .1 is 1.

argghhh

meepNinja: I mean, you're saying .9 is 1. It's not, the same way an apple is not an orange. .9 is .9 .9 + .1 is 1. argghhh

.9 repeating is not .9

the end point of the infinite repeating sequence is one that you cannot reach

so while .9 is not 1, .9 repeating is indistinguishable from 1 because you can't tell me what the difference is

x = .999 10x = 9.999 10x - x = 9.999 - .999 9x = 9 x = 1 .999 = 1

nocal: .9 repeating is not .9

Somebody needs to tell nocal to stop posting in this thread, ASAP.

.9 (or .99999999) repeating for infinity is exactly that.

It will never be 1. Ever. Ever ever.

Things (EVEN NUMBERS!) can be as infinitely small as they can be infinitely endless.

You can't understand this unless you admit that an human cannot completely understand this.

I dunno, I think I need to edit this to make a little more sense for the infantile.

<span class="post_was_edited">On 2009-11-29 at 03:52:10, Wotak asked to smell your meep</span>

meeping washing your meep isn't a sin, is it?

<span class="post_was_edited">On 2009-11-29 at 03:54:22, Wotak asked to smell your meep</span>

godevillivedog: x = .999 10x = 9.999 10x - x = 9.999 - .999 9x = 9 x = 1 .999 = 1

Where'd you get the extra 9 in step 2?

sugarslim: Richard_Parker, please feel free to oneup the the everloving meep out of this. (really)

Since I was asked...

The only way to really, difinitively prove this is to go back to axiomatic mathematics, but that would be meeping stupid, because a reasonable proof that 2+2=4 has literally dozens upon dozens of steps, each step consisting of hundreds of subtheorems (http://us.metamath.org/mpegif/mmset.html). Ironically, the more complicated the mathematics, the shorter the path to axiom, in general. On a side note, this is one of the most beautiful things about logic, in my self-inflated opinion. (The preceeding paragraph might not be entirely accurate due to the fact that I am a physicist, not a mathematician, but if you're not a mathematician and a lawyer, it's good enough.)

The easiest way to explain this is to tell you you've already answered your own question.

dameep: 1/3 = 0.3333..

If this is true, then any time you see a "1/3," you can always just substitute in a "0.3333.."

dameep: 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 = 1

Make the substitution "1/3=0.3333.." and you have:

0.3333.. + 0.3333.. + 0.3333.. = 1

You also have:

dameep: 0.3333.. + 0.3333.. + 0.3333.. = 0.9999..

Therefore,

0.3333.. + 0.3333.. + 0.3333.. = 0.9999.. = 1

0.9999.. = 1

Oh, and tak...

.9 (or .99999999) repeating for infinity is exactly that. It will never be 1. Ever. Ever ever. You can't understand this unless you admit that an human cannot completely understand this...

stfu, meep.

EDIT: to make it look prettier.

<span class="post_was_edited">On 2009-11-29 at 05:57:44, Richard_Parker asked to smell your meep</span>

magicchex:

godevillivedog: x = .999 10x = 9.999 10x - x = 9.999 - .999 9x = 9 x = 1 .999 = 1

Where'd you get the extra 9 in step 2?

I was assuming an infinite number of 9's to the right of the decimal.
But now that you point it out, I guess I would still be one 9 short (after multiplying by 10) away out there at infinity-1.

<span class="post_was_edited">On 2009-11-29 at 06:48:57, godevillivedog asked to smell your meep</span>

Richard_Parker: stfu, meep.

Tread carefully, I've heard wotak eats freshly killed coons and skunks for breakfast.

so while .9 is not 1, .9 repeating is indistinguishable from 1 because you can't tell me what the difference is

the difference between .999.. and 1 is..

1 - .999... = .0..1

<span class="post_was_edited">On 2009-11-29 at 08:11:33, dameep asked to smell your meep</span>

dameep: the difference between .999.. and 1 is.. 1 - .999... = .0..1

Because I have a reputation, I'm going to make this clear up front: I mean this politely.

What is unclear about my explination?

If you follow what I said, it should be easy for you to convince yourself that there is no 1 at the end of 1 - 0.9999.., because there would have to be a zero after one of those 9's, and there isn't one.

1 - 0.90000.. = 0.10000..

1 - 0.990000.. = 0.010000..

1- 0.9990000.. = 0.0010000..

1- 0.9999.. = 0.0000..

dameep, i don't know a god damned thing about math but everytime you post something with an abundance of double periods it makes me want to stab you in the throat with a rusty spade.

please stop..

dameep: so while .9 is not 1, .9 repeating is indistinguishable from 1 because you can't tell me what the difference is the difference between .999.. and 1 is.. 1 - .999... = .0..1 <span class="post_was_edited">On 2009-11-29 at 08:11:33, dameep asked to smell your meep</span>

for real, what you are saying is "the difference is infinity plus one!"

Therefore, 0.3333.. + 0.3333.. + 0.3333.. = 0.9999.. = 1 0.9999.. = 1

But are you saying that the missing number (0.0001) is not important? How can you ignore it? It's necessary to equal the whole, one in this case.

so while .9 is not 1, .9 repeating is indistinguishable from 1 because you can't tell me what the difference is

The difference is that one of them (1) is a whole number. The other is an endless repeating number. It does not ever stop repeating, and will therefore never equal the first number (1). They are two separate numbers.

meepNinja:

Therefore, 0.3333.. + 0.3333.. + 0.3333.. = 0.9999.. = 1 0.9999.. = 1

But are you saying that the missing number (0.0001) is not important? How can you ignore it? It's necessary to equal the whole, one in this case.

No. I'm saying that the missing number doesn't exist:

If you follow what I said, it should be easy for you to convince yourself that there is no 1 at the end of 1 - 0.9999.., because there would have to be a zero after one of those 9's, and there isn't one. 1 - 0.90000.. = 0.10000.. 1 - 0.990000.. = 0.010000.. 1- 0.9990000.. = 0.0010000.. 1- 0.9999.. = 0.0000..

What you need to remember here is that there is no such thing as infinity. The universe is NOT infinitely large, it's only so big it can be treated as such. Nothing real can go on forever.

So the key here is that in mathematics, when we talk about infinity, we're talking about something that is totally abstract in every concievable way. The properties of this infinity are not governed by nature (what you concieve infinity to be based on your experience and the definitions you were given). The properties of infinity are governed by the mathematics. If you follow my previous post, you will see that I have PROVED that 0.9999.. = 1, as long as you agree with me that 1/3 = 0.3333... The properties of infinity are given by this relationship, not your perception. Therefore, if you agree that:

0.3333.. + 0.3333.. + 0.3333.. = 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3,

but you still disagree that

0.9999.. = 1,

then it is your personal definition of infinity that is wrong, not the relationship.

You need to redefine what you concieve infinity to be.

I propose a new definition: Infinity is the thing which, when a series approaches it, the series converges to a whole.

So , 0.9999.. converges (is equal to) 1, and 9999.. converges to R (the set of all real numbers). To clarify: a whole number is a fraction of a set, and infinitely many whole numbers is a whole set, while a decimal is a fraction of a whole number, and infinitely many decimals is a whole number.

I know it's hard to wrap your head around, but again, you have to remember that INFINITY IS NOT REAL. It is defined by the relationships.

Thus, again, 0.9999.. = 1.

Richard_Parker: Because I have a reputation, I'm going to make this clear up front: I mean this politely.

This was awfully kind of you, but as far as I can tell, your reputation isn't for being impolite; it's for being a phony and a self-precious babyhead meepbag.

On the other hand, I look forward to you prefacing at least 1/3 of your posts with a self-conscious nod to your 'rep'.

To be fair, RP contributed nicely to this thread.

I, however, did not.

Pi is exactly 3.

the more this I keep reading, the more I cant help but agree with BigDinWaunakee ...

no.. not infinity +1.. that would be like saying 0.99 + 0.001 = 1

your example only convinced me that 0.1 is required for 0.9 to become 1. So, 0.01 is required for 0.99 to become 1.. and it goes on like this for infinity..

What you need to remember here is that there is no such thing as infinity. The universe is NOT infinitely large, it's only so big it can be treated as such. Nothing real can go on forever.

if infinity doesn't exist, why is it used in quantum physics?

JohnLenin: To be fair, RP contributed nicely to this thread. I, however, did not. Pi is exactly 3.

PI = 4/(5/4) greetings from 1897, 2nd chronicles.

As you approach the speed of light, your mass approaches infinity.
That is why anything with non zero mass cannot attain the speed of light.
Because in the real world infinity doesn't exist.
If infinity was "real" then you could exceed the speed of light and time would become the square root of a negative number (an imaginary number) and other strange things that are not observed in the "real" universe.

<span class="post_was_edited">On 2009-11-30 at 02:09:52, godevillivedog asked to smell your meep</span>

<span class="post_was_edited">On 2009-11-30 at 02:11:26, godevillivedog asked to smell your meep</span>

vasudeva:

Richard_Parker: Because I have a reputation, I'm going to make this clear up front: I mean this politely.

This was awfully kind of you, but as far as I can tell, your reputation isn't for being impolite; it's for being a phony and a self-precious babyhead meepbag.

On the other hand, I look forward to you prefacing at least 1/3 of your posts with a self-conscious nod to your 'rep'.

Let it go, man. It's over.

dameep: So, 0.01 is required for 0.99 to become 1.. and it goes on like this for infinity..

I will explain this one more time, but it's the last. I want you to understand, if you want to understand, but it's becoming clear to me that you would rather just be right. So, here it is, one more time, just in case I'm wrong:

1 - 0.90000.. = 0.10000.. 1 - 0.990000.. = 0.010000.. 1- 0.9990000.. = 0.0010000.. 1- 0.9999.. = 0.0000..

The reason 0.9 + 0.1 =1 is that you are really talking about 0.90000.. + 0.10000.. = 1.0000.. There are NO ZEROS after 0.9999.., so adding a string of zeros with a one at the end will NOT give a 1.

I did my best. Good luck, sir.

i usually tend to look up stuff i'm not familiar with:

also, this

i'm a little concerned about He's convinced there is no explanation and his teacher as well.. but hey, idyuts.

The difference is that one of them (1) is a whole number. The other is an endless repeating number. It does not ever stop repeating, and will therefore never equal the first number (1). They are two separate numbers.

You're approaching the number by visualizing its written symbol and human definitions instead of its physical properties.

.99999... numerically is closer to 1 than any other number. since it is exponentially hypothetical you must substitute the only realistic value, 1, in its place to make the most accurate calculations.

.9 infinity looks different than 1 on paper, but their actual values are theoretically equal.

I have a hard time not believing in infinity - but you do make solid points RP.

In conclusion, meep math.

Richard_Parker: It's over.

I'm quite sure you're right!