Michael Moore - anti american?

Michael Moore is a full on American.

America is the greatesr nation on this plantet.

It does not follow that all Americans are the greatest people on the planet.

Case in point: Michael Moore is a liar and a political coward who hides behind some sanctimonious sheild of dissent rather face up to his lack of moral principle.

Michael Moore is not anti-American; he's just a bullmeep American.

I just want to see the movie and go fom there.

American flag tablecloths, beach towels, and a 30 foot flagpole waving the stars and stripes in my neighbor's frontyard.. all bullmeep!!!!!!! being patriotic is not measured on how much much american memoriabilia you have stuck to your minivan. it's about fighting for change.. right now we need change. the problem with moore's movie is that not enough right wing terrorist will watch it

CHACHACHIA: the problem with moore's movie is that not enough right wing terrorist will watch it

NOBODY needs to see this movie. Michael Moore is a propagandist. His goal in creating this movie was only to make money. This is a man that says people that want to be in America would be better off pissing on themselves (quote).

His movies are full of twists, misinformation, and flat out lies. Michael Moore's movies is so meeping EXTREMIST he is getting offers for support from TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS. meep Michael Moore. He is sick in the head. I don't necessarily agree with Bush, the current administration or their tactics and policies. However, I also don't agree with slander, and that's what this movie is. If Michael Moore was promoting this movie as satire (what it is) than I would have a different opinion of hiim. However, he is firmly stating that this movie is entirely factual. BULLmeep. IT's not even close! The entire first half of the film is based on events and actions that ARE NOT BASED ON FACT. He is a propagandist, nothing more. The worst part is he will convince millions of american sheep that this film is factually accurate. He is not honest, he is a meeping socialist! He is sick and I see a tragic Chris Farley-esque death in his near future.

IMO

p.s. this is a man who sat on prisoner abuse video for over 5 months, because he wanted to keep that "never before seen footage' title for his new movie. MONEY GRUBBING meep MUNCHER

[Edited on 22/6/2004 by straydog1980]

[Edited on 22/6/2004 by straydog1980]

CHACHACHIA: American flag tablecloths, beach towels, and a 30 foot flagpole waving the stars and stripes in my neighbor's frontyard.. all bullmeep!!!!!!! being patriotic is not measured on how much much american memoriabilia you have stuck to your minivan. it's about fighting for change.

RONG.

Patriotism is exactly about having all the jingoistic meep you can get your hands on dripping from every surface you can lay any claim to.

Look at WalMart. You think WalMart, with its color scheme, gratuitous star, and its references to (Uncle) "Sam" aren't patriotic? You got another think coming, hotshot. Go buy some flags at WalMart, slap some stars-n-stripes stickers on your car (extra points if you can scrounge up a sticker that says you fought for your country or implies it with "Never Forget" which will help all those lost and dead in foreign countries we invaded).

Fighting for change is for terrorists. You don't like it here? THEN GO LIVE IN FRANCE!!!!1!1``

Praise be to Limbaugh/Bush!

HUAGH!

He may be a liar, but I bet his funny will fix my broken LOL wagon. Heck, I bet he can turn it into a shiny new go-cart!!1

ZIPPITY-DOO-DAH.

meepNinjaMcDeath: He may be a liar, but I bet his funny will fix my broken LOL wagon. Heck, I bet he can turn it into a shiny new go-cart!!1 ZIPPITY-DOO-DAH.

too bad most people that go see it don't have that point of view. Most will walk out, and say something like, 'bush is such an meep! we should vote for kerry."..."why?"...."i don't know. bush suX0rs!"

And i'll probably see it, also. I need to be able to argue with my wife effectively. She loves Michael Moore, and is going to vote for Kerry just because she hates Bush. when I ask her why she is going to give Kerry her vote, she says "because I hate Bush". :sigh:

It's really kind of a predicament, isn't it? Only a vote for Kerry is actually a vote AGAINST Bush. Voting for anyone else (beside Bush and Kerry) is a wasted vote, IMO. But what if you don't agree with Kerry either?

[Edited on 22/6/2004 by straydog1980]

straydog1980: It's really kind of a predicament, isn't it? Only a vote for Kerry is actually a vote AGAINST Bush. Voting for anyone else (beside Bush and Kerry) is a wasted vote, IMO. But what if you don't agree with Kerry either?

Then, meep, at least you haven't voted for Bush. These are mean times and every vote counts.

In this case, the devil I DON'T know has got to be better than the one I do.

vasudeva: Then, meep, at least you haven't voted for Bush. These are mean times and every vote counts. In this case, the devil I DON'T know has got to be better than the one I do.

good point. Personally, I am involved with musicians (and in turn people) from cultures and countries all over the world. Most people that are active on the internet these days have that sort of contact to some extent. Almost universally, BUSH is hated around the world. I don't think I can recall speaking to anyone that hasn't held this opinion. And in a recent poll of the Iraqi people whom we are 'liberating', 85% or more (I can't recall the exact number) believe that all Americans act like the soldiers in Abu Ghraib. that is meeping sad.

My own father -- a staunch classic Midwestern Good Citizen conservative patriarchy-respecting Catholic [1] -- voted for Bush and, as he told me yesterday, "won't do that again." Using different terminology, he explained he's basically in the anyone-but-Bush camp.

I find this stunning. And telling.

[1] If you can believe that meep.

Leftist-Fictionist that uses editing and humor to sell his fiction. I've had discussions about him and any of my lefty friends treat him like god and don't question anything he does.
Take his new movie for example, Fahrenheit 911. It's almost like a national 'ok' to criticize and think about what happened whenever he puts a movie out, like people haven't been reporting on it since the beginning. Alex Jones put a movie out about 911 more than 2 years ago and I'm sure its 100% more informative than Moore's movie. Although I haven't seen it, from what I've heard about his movie, he basically sums it up by demonizing America as a whole and preposes the U.N. come and take us over in so many words.
To me Michael Moore is like a 1984 Minister of Information type, all smiles and a likability(?) that you can't put a finger on, but a certainty that he's in some shady meep.

Worth considering:

1) None of us have seen Farenheit 9/11, so it is premature to assert that it is as misleading and disingenuous as everything else Michael Moore has done.

For all we know, his conclusions just might be that GWB is some kind of hero -- who knows?

This, of course, is in no way an apology for his past work. It speaks for itself, and it says: "I'm full of meep. I have a bullmeep aggenda, and because factual accuracy and truth will not serve my bullmeep aggenda, I will spin the grandest of bullmeep tales to promote that aggenda."

2) If we are to accept the widely held assertion that GWB is monumentally dispicable, why is it that a notorious prevaricator like Michael Moore suddenly makes such assertions all the more credible -- why, instead, don't we look at the body of Michael Moore's questionable research and fatuous conclusions, and call his conclusions re: GWB suspect?

At the risk of restateing myself I wil say that no matter how bad GWB is, there is zero evidence that Kerry (Our Savior (TM))(for instance) is any better. The founding premise of many people in this country (and many posters to LS) is that anybody but Bush would be better for this country. I challenge that bullmeep. I challenge that bullmeep outright.

3) As bad as GWB may be, it does not follow that Kerry (Our Savior (TM))(for instance) will necessarily be a better president, nor that Michael Moore is suddenly right about anything.

4) Should Michael Moore's dispicable bullmeep make a neagative statement about GWB (and I can't imagine that it wouldn't), based on that alone, I'm willing to strongly advocate the recondsidering of our widely held assertions about GWB and perhaps even to the point of adopting a contrary position.

5) If Michael Moore's conclusion in Farenheit 9/11 is that GWB is actually some kind of national hero, I will a) feel far better about my misgivings about GWB, and b) be very interested to see if all these Michael Moore apologists will continue to assert that there is merit to his work despite its complete bullmeep.

John Kerry can speak coherently. He is likeable because of his charisma ( a.k.a - a soul ), his leadership skills in nam, and his obvious retention from what he learned in school. George W on the other hand is a failed business man with an alcohol problem ( how many times has he fell down and hurt himself in the past year? ) he's also a recovering cocaine addict. Over all the man can't speak well in public because of he is a simpleton. That's why I am voting Kerry. Michael moore is right; so am I.

I can't type well because of I am pissed

LOki: 4) Should Michael Moore's dispicable bullmeep make a neagative statement about GWB (and I can't imagine that it wouldn't), based on that alone, I'm willing to strongly advocate the recondsidering of our widely held assertions about GWB and perhaps even to the point of adopting a contrary position.

That's just part and parcel of the magickal human package that is LOki. You love -- nay, Love -- nay nay, LOVE -- to play contrarian.

Instead of bucking the trend and waiting for the lil feeder fish to come explain themselves whilst nibbling at the toes of your august tutelage, how bout you describe what it is about Bush's presence, persona, speeches, actions, decisions -- any of his output, I guess -- that makes you wonder if maybe he's the guy for us.

Can you do that, you big honky-tonk neo-pagan?

I shook Michael Moore's hand once at a Democratic call center.

<center></center>

vasudeva - "Can you do that, you big honky-tonk neo-pagan?"

Nope.

Ok. Fair is fair.

GW's response to the Taliban was right on the money. No doubt about it, those asshoels needed to learn that the U.S. is just as capable of dishing out violence as we are of taking it. That we are fully aware that diplomacy is meaningless to them, and that violence is not. That we are, in fact, so good at violence that maybe they might rather value our diplomacy a bit more.

Extending that war to the abstract term "terrorism" is (I'll clearly concede) suspicious. Using that "War on Terrah" to crush our liberties is wrong. But I think WE can fight that fight very effectively.

GW's response to the UN's lack of resolution in following their resolutions to resolve the issues regarding Iraq's weapons programs is excellent. The UN is lame and it's membership is a joke. THey are very good at organizing charity, but have utterly failed at any "peace keeping" they've ever attempted. Only when the US leads and controls such missions to the point where they are practicly unilateral actions, does any hope for success exist.

When the focus of criticism went to the actual existence of WoMD, GW failed miserably in establishing that such proof of existence was not the point -- Iraq's failure to comply with UN resolutions was, in fact, the actual point of the matter. And that Iraq's failure to comply with UN resolutions indicated a very possible threat to the security of the U.S.

Then when the critique went to accusations of oil control, he equally failed to point out that the revenues from such huge oil reserves was tantamount to WoMD in the hands of the Hussein Dynasty.

Anyway, I don't really see that he had much choice with the Micheal Moores around here blaming the Bush administration for not being pre-emptive enough in the wake of 9/11. I'm not arguing that invading Iraq turned out to be necessary, but I am suggesting that it really may have appeared so at the time. (And I'm also suggesting that you fukers got what you asked for, namely: pre-emptive action.)

GW starting to bust the goverment's monopoly on education? Another good move. In fact, I am even in favor of all these religious schools potentially getting in on this action. Perhaps the Fear Of God (punny!) will start the careless, but otherwise thoughtful folk around this country to take a more active role in finding out exactly what their kids are being taught, and perhaps creating a market for choice in the matter. Force schools to provide an excellent product, or get out of the game.

GW's economic policies are speaking for themselves. Tax cuts RAWK! If it were not for the spending on these TWO(!) wars, we'd be in even better shape.

As I've already hinted at above, I believe that GW, or factions in his administration, have done well in sabotaging some the good that's been done. I will also assert that John (Our Savior (TM)) Kerry will continue to destroy what good has been done in the name of being anybody but Bush.

So, there. A response for you, pal.

[Edited on 22/6/2004 by LOki]

BUSH'S RECORD TO DATE! 1) Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history; 2) Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period; 3) Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market; 4) First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history; 5) After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history; 6) In his first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their jobs; 7) Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history; 8) Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history; 9) Signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any president in US history; 10) Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed; 11) Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans; 12) Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest a sitting American President, shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind; 13) Dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history; 14) First president in US history to have all 50 states of the Union simultaneously go bankrupt; 15) Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world; 16) First president in US history to order a US attack and military occupation of a sovereign nation; 17) Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States; 18) Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in US history; 19) First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the human rights commission; 20) First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the elections monitoring board; 21) All-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations; 22) Biggest life-time campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation); 23) Spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history; 24) Took the biggest world sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history); 25) With a policy of 'disengagement' created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years; 26) Fist US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view his presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability; 27) First US president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the US than their immediate neighbor, North Korea; 30) Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts; 31) Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts; 32) Failed to fulfill his pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive'; 33) Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capitol building. After 18 months he has no leads and zero suspects; 34) In the 18 months following the 911 attacks he successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States; 35) Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history; 36) Entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category straight down.

meepNinjaMcDeath: <center></center>

i'm sorry i ever doubted you, mr. mcdeath. you rock

Like a crackhead AIDS-infected monkey with freshly-clipped toenails.

Or Van Halen.

Would that be Van Halen the David Lee Roth years, or Van Halen The Sammy years, or the Van Halen before Eddie got the bad tongue cancer or after. You have to be more specific than just tossing out a random

Like a crackhead AIDS-infected monkey with freshly-clipped toenails.

Or Van Halen.

Straydog - For the most part you are preaching to the choir about Bush, we all hate him with a few meep exceptions who are hanging out in their meep republican closets spanking their monkeys.

As for the original thread about big fat Moore, I have to think about the heel tripper analogy. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. I might not like him, but he hates Bush so therefore I like him. In case you have not noticed this is also how Middle East politics works, expect on a much larger scale.

Dumbskull: As for the original thread about big fat Moore, I have to think about the heel tripper analogy. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. I might not like him, but he hates Bush so therefore I like him. In case you have not noticed this is also how Middle East politics works, expect on a much larger scale.

yes, but that concept will rot american politics. I mean, even if Moore converts millions of Americans to vote against Bush (which he probably will), they will just be mindless sheep. These are not educated voters, that will help vote for good presidents in the future. These are just lambs, waiting for Moore (or someone else) to shove some twisted stories and statistics in their face so they can decide who to vote for. the only reason they'll vote for Kerry or anyone else is just to vote against Bush. In this election that might be the only viable option, but generally that is the worst thing you can do when electing a president. A president voted in because of anger, or hatred? What direction will that take our country in. That's why this movie pisses me off so much, because it is solely propaganda. It does not educate, but hypnotize. I want to see people voting for a president because they believe in him and his stance and his values, not because they "hate the other guy".

LOki: GW's response to the Taliban was right on the money. [...] GW's response to the UN's lack of resolution [...] When the focus of criticism went to the actual existence of WoMD, GW failed miserably [...] Then when the critique went to accusations of oil control, he equally failed

So far, you're talking about the war. I'm sad the war happened, not least of which because I suspect it's legitimized Bush to a certain degree, and made him appear less the grinning boy-harlot buffoon meep I intuit he, as a man, really is.

I'll agree with you insofar as I don't think he entirely fuked everything up. But then, with his team of advisors and puppetmasters, how could he? What does this say about him as a person? It gives us just enough that we can assume he's either fool enough to be bent to someone else's will, or he's just smart enough to sit still and nod occasionally when people far wiser than him are talking.

Either way, I don't find comfort. Coupled with his many legendary gaffes, apparent lack of ability to think himself out of a wet paper bag, and general dimwitted demeanor, I don't see any reason at all to assume he's our man.

GW starting to bust the goverment's monopoly on education? Another good move. In fact, I am even in favor of all these religious schools potentially getting in on this action. Perhaps the Fear Of God (punny!) will start the careless, but otherwise thoughtful folk around this country to take a more active role in finding out exactly what their kids are being taught, and perhaps creating a market for choice in the matter. Force schools to provide an excellent product, or get out of the game.

You'll have to educate me on this, if you don't mind. First I've heard of it. But if I can guess what you're getting at, again: so he has a team of advisors -- so what? i get no impression he prizes education very highly. I suspect a hardon for the viral Christian meme.

I will also assert that John (Our Savior (TM)) Kerry will continue to destroy what good has been done in the name of being anybody but Bush.

I don't buy it. Why assume this? What of his platforms or actions lead you to suspect Kerry will take up the goose-stepping Hitler Moustache of Ultimate Power from Bush and carry on wreaking havoc for another four years?

Is it just the gun thing? (I don't like that part either...)

Well, to call some1 anti-american, I guess you would have to make a definition as to what defines an anti-american; or what defines an american, for that matter. I really could care less as to whether moore is anti-american. I have not seen this supposedly shocking(and perhaps enlightening?) film, though I do plan to.

But, I do have a question: So what happens when the public sees this film, and the general consensus is that he is anti-american. What then? A McCarthyistic witch hunt for others? Or what about we put a nice big scarlet A on his shirt? Or do we stone him to death for believing in something different than "the norm". I mean, wtf people...

LuckyLuciano: So what happens when the public sees this film, and the general consensus is that he is anti-american. What then? A McCarthyistic witch hunt for others? Or what about we put a nice big scarlet A on his shirt? Or do we stone him to death for believing in something different than "the norm". I mean, wtf people...

that's the problem! the general public will see this movie and accept it for pure fact! They won't think he's anti-american. They will think Bush is anti-american. Most people are frustrated with Bush in one way or another. I talk to few people who are 100% pleased with his tenure in office. The people who aren't active in terms of educating themselves, are GOING to be swayed by this film. Michael Moore, is undeniably a brilliant film maker and writer. His books, right or wrong, have generated scores of critical reviews both good and bad. Propaganda is his game. It's what he does!

To the 'general public' who doesn't know that he is putting a huge spin on things, and doesn't care enough about politics or our countrie's future to be aware, they aren't going to SEE him as anti-american. They are going to agree with his film, and walk out of there thinking Bush is the anti-christ.

Yes, bush meeped up (IMO) and made lots of poor decisions for all the wrong reasons. But this film is slanderous! and really it is a satire. Moore is presenting this film as absolute fact. So the common bread and meeper American that goes and sees this incredibly compelling film, and hears Moore in his charismatic and convincing manner, tell them that all of these things are fact...........they're going to believe him! bottom line.

This film should be promoted as SATIRE, not FACT. that's my beef. At least give the AMerican public the heads up that, hey! this is just my opinion.....a lot of the facts and numbers here aren't completely accurate...it's really a political satire.

That at least would be HONEST, and give americans the chance to leave the theatre trying to weigh between two options, instead of being hypnotized into Moore-vision.

[Edited on 23/6/2004 by straydog1980]

www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com

Evidently some feel strongly enough to make their own film.

[Edited on 23/6/2004 by mineralGod]

straydog1980: This film should be promoted as SATIRE, not FACT. that's my beef.

I couldn't agree more. After reading about the incredible lengths Moore went to in doctoring Heston's appearance in Bowling for Columbine, it was all I could do to bring myself to watch it.

VAS: I couldn't agree more. After reading about the incredible lengths Moore went to in doctoring Heston's appearance in Bowling for Columbine, it was all I could do to bring myself to watch it.

Agreed...Although I couldn't be bothered to watch Bowling for Columbine, and I have the same feeling towards this film.

MUD

bowling for columbine made me sick to my stomach. And at the time I watched it, I wasn't aware of all the lies and half truths that Moore puts in his films, so I (stupidly) accepted the film as fact. It wasn't until later I found out the truth. The only feeling I had when I finished that film was hate, anger, and disgust. They weren't really effective emotions either, because I didn't necessarilyy know what I needed or wanted to do, but I just felt angry and upset. The movie only served to rile people up, and that's what it did to me. You see....Moore didn't offer a solution to all the problems he described, he just spread hate, and even worse hate without direction. The more I think about him and his films, the more I think he is really sick in the head.

Especially in that scene where he goes to Charlton's house. I really felt bad for Charlton, man. I mean, he's an old dude. Let him have his meep guns. For god's sake, he's a cult film national icon! Leave him alone!

HAHA! OK! I am gripped by a genuine feeiling of generosity so ... RESPONSES FOR EVERYBODY!

CHACHACHIA - "John Kerry can speak coherently. ..."

I'd be more interested to discover that he thinks coherently. His voting record does not support hope for this discovery though.

CHACHACHIA - "He is likeable because of his charisma ( a.k.a - a soul ), ..."

Just because John (Our Savior (TM)) Kerry has more soul than Al (Mr. Roboto) Gore, doesn't mean Kerry has soul. Moreover, this concept of charisma is really too subjective a criteria to choose a president over. For instance, I enjoy GWB's bumpkiness -- it's quaint -- but it certainly doesn't make him a better president. Nor does looking good on TV. It's not very relative criteria.

CHACHACHIA - "George W on the other hand is a failed business man with an alcohol problem ..."

Right. You hate Bush. Presumed from the beginning.

straydog1980 - "BUSH'S RECORD TO DATE!"

This list is alot of bullmeep. For instance: Bush did not "(s)et economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period;" nor did he "(s)et all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market." Bush set no such records. Bush certainly inherited this economic legacy from his predecessor; he was certianly president when it happened, but he did not "set" some such record.

Also, Bush did not "have the United Nations remove the US from the human rights commission;" nor did he "have the United Nations remove the US from the elections monitoring board." What nonsense. "Hi UN! It's Dubya! Get the US out of the Human Rights Commision -- and anything else we're in on. kthx!"

Then there are plenty of items in the "Bush pissed of France, Bush pissed off Bolivia, Bush pissed off Korea, etc. ..." category of presumptuous accusation, to which I respond with a heartfelt, "So what?"

What do these marginal powers do except complain about how they can't compete against the U.S. economic machine; or how big and powerful we are, so we should just give them relief, while they continue to engage in their bankrupt behavior.

I'm not saying that there aren't any true statements in that list, because there are. I am saying however, it's important to read your chain letter spam before you post it in here as fact.

straydog1980 - "I mean, even if Moore converts millions of Americans to vote against Bush (which he probably will), they will just be mindless sheep. These are not educated voters, that will help vote for good presidents in the future. These are just lambs, waiting for Moore (or someone else) to shove some twisted stories and statistics in their face so they can decide who to vote for. the only reason they'll vote for Kerry or anyone else is just to vote against Bush."

WERDZ! (thx! azron123)

vasudeva - "You'll have to educate me on this, if you don't mind. First I've heard of it. But if I can guess what you're getting at, again: so he has a team of advisors -- so what? i get no impression he prizes education very highly. I suspect a hardon for the viral Christian meme."

What I'm talking about there is the push for education vouchers that can be applied to the tuition at private or charter type schools. This allows parents a choice in the educational insitution that hey send their kids to without the burden of paying double tuition via the tax based, subsidized public school system.

vasudeva - "I don't buy it. Why assume this? What of his platforms or actions lead you to suspect Kerry will take up the goose-stepping Hitler Moustache of Ultimate Power from Bush and carry on wreaking havoc for another four years?

I admit that it's a bit of assuption on my part. It's assuption based on his "I'm not Bush" platform, and his commitment to roll back the "tax cuts for the rich, " and similar "I'm not Bush" promises.

vasudeva - "Is it just the gun thing?"

Nope. Bush is on the record as being every bit anti-second amendment as Kerry is. It is however, one of the indicators (to me, at least) that Kerry is really no better than Bush. And thus, if he's really no better, what's the point in voting for him?

LOki: it's important to read your chain letter spam before you post it in here as fact.

hehe..you're right, I just found it in some article and posted it. MAH BAD :D

LOOK OUT FOR THE SNAKE!

... and don't let the donks try to mislead you on that Iraq stuff

[Edited on 23/6/2004 by LOki]